Insignias wore by members of the Ahnenerbe?

[Donald Abenheim]

Splitting hairs or its nazi equivalent.

All the above is highly germane, save one point. I cite the Organingramme in Heinemann, cited above, for the year 1935 viz:

*I.Chef d. RuSHA Darre


*II. Stabskanzlei Harm


*III. Zentralamt * Rassenamt *Schulungsamt* Sippenamt *Siedlungsamt * Amt fuer Archiv- und Zeitungswesen

*IV Schulungsamt unterstellt:



Schulen & 10 Mannschaftshaeuser


*IV Sippenamt unterstellt:

Lebensborn e.V. & Sonderkdo Kyritz.


then: Rassenreferenten bei den Oberabschnitten

Hence my reference to Rassenamt. A goodly portion of Darre's organization was concerned with agriculture versus race theory as applied to everyday life in the SS. I stress that this Heinemann book is remarkable in the detail of its research. By the way, I was able to find Herbert Backe's book on Nazi agriculture recently in Berlin. Very strong stuff, to be sure. Did he not replace Darre? I have the latter's book too, actually.

[gencom]

Hi Derek,
First of all i realy want to thank you for your very usefull answer.
I wish to get your opinon about that : Do you think it was also possible to wear the "Leben rune Raute" with the RuSHA armband? (I know what you will say : Yes, but i ever seen the Darre's staff with the RuSHA cuff title & Odal rune, not the Leben rune... Any evidence of the contrary? Pics are welcome )

I think that after 1942, the RuSHA was also incorporated into Himmler's personal staff under the "Reichsführung-SS" department, but prior, if i considere the point of view that the Ahnenerbe was attached to the RuSHA, their members who were attached to the SS should have worn the RuSHA cuff title, not the "RFSS" as mentionned on the link below.

As the RuSHA had its own cuff title, they should'nt have the right to wear the "RFSS" cuff title don't you think? .
So what you think about that? It could be a mistake made by the owner of this site? or if i follow your thinking, a member of any other SS branch (for ex. RFSS, SS-TV and why not LAH or even SD) would be able to wear their respective cuff armbands with the Leben-rune on the forearm (of course in case of affiliation to the Ahnenerbe society)?
This seems quite strange...
GenCom

[gencom]

Well, i think that a study of the uniforms of Wolfram Sievers or Professor Hirt would be very usefull, don't you think?

[Donald Abenheim]

further thought

A pictorial source on the R u S HA in action are the volumes dealing with the resettlement of Germans from the Black Sea and Carpathians carried out in 1940. These volumes are from Volk u. Reich Verlag and show some of this regalia. The Ahnenerbe, however, does not appear in these volumes. I shall include the citations later.

[gencom]

Donald,
could you scan and share some pics of this book?
It would be very great, we have to resolve this mystery .
thanks in advance!
GenCom

[derek]

I stand corrected. A mistake made in haste; Rassenamt was, of course one of departments. My focus on the early years when the organisation was called by this name led me to overlook the later internal structure of RuSHA. To add to Mr. Abenheim's post by 1937 RuSHA had expanded to seven departments but had shrunk to four by 1941 (due in no small part to Darre's decreasing power).
I will look into the uniform questions posed by Gencom but for what it's worth photographs of one officer of the R. u S. Hauptamt show him in 1934 wearing the collar patch of an SS-Sturmbannfuehrer, the early RFSS cufftitle and the Lebensborn patch. By 1936 he is wearing the second pattern RFSS title and the Odalrune diamond. Another officer of the RuSHA wears the silver Abteilungsleiter cuffband with double centre lines.
I will look into Sievers as I have quite an extensive file on him.
Regards,
Derek

[gencom]

Derek : thanks a lot!
Please, don't forget to share your pics of this SturmbannFührer and Sievers, i need evidences .
Merci! Laurent

Ps : for informations :

Before 1940 the RuSHA consisted of the following.

1) Organisation und Verwaltungsamt (Organisation and Administration)
2) Rassenamt (Race)
3) Schulungsamt (Education)
4) Sippen und Heiratsamt (Family and Marriage)
5) Siedlingsamt (Settlement)
6) Amt fur Archiv und Zeitungswesen (Records and Press)
7) Amt fur Bevolkerungspolitik (Population Policy)

[Donald Abenheim]

Volk un Reich titles

One rather cumbersome, but definitive way to do this, alluded to by colleague Chapman would be thus: you get the names of the germane people in the Ahnenerbe who also held SS rank and then look at their files in the Berlin Document Center SS officer files in the Bundesarchiv-Berlin and see what they are wearing for badges, if at all. That is, the personnel file often has the photo of the incumbent, granted the emphasis in the SS on physical being &c. Colleague Chapman is better equipped with this material than am I. The books to which I referred include not so much Ahnenerbe people as R u S HA staff on station in Bessarabia and in those parts of the USSR evacuated of Volksdeutsche by agreement with Stalin (the ethnic cleansing creek-swap) that was in the prelude to the outbreak of war between the Reich and the USSR once both sides had shellacked the Poles and Stalin was in the process of digesting the Baltics, &c. as well as the Germans were paying off the Hungarians at the expense of the Slovaks, &c. These Volksdeutsche ended up in what had been Poland, in the so-called Warthegau. I do not have a scanner, but I can include the titles. Some of the SS personnel do seem to wear full out "Rasse und Siedlungshauptamt" cuff titles. I also collect these "Volk und Reich Verlag" titles, if anyone has any spares they do not care about. One of the titles is: Der Zug d. Volksdeutschen aus Bessarabien u. Nordbuchenland (Prag, 1942). One can look in Gesamtverzeichnis antiquarischer Buecher for copies, which I have not done....

PS Now I looked, and these titles sure ain't there. The ones that I thought to be common are, and they cost a fortune. The rise in the price of NS books in Germany is staggering. Euro=teuro!

[gencom]

The Resettlement of the Volksdeutsch was carried out by the VOMI department (attached to the RuSHA).
They wore the RuSHA cuff title but with another Raute (AO for ex.), not the Odal or Leben Rune, and my interest is about this Leben-rune raute associated to the Ahnenerbe.
I'm waiting for the photographs of our friend Derek
GenCom

[MJC]

I don't know if I will be able to help, but I have the complete personnel files for Wolfram Sievers, Dr. Ernst Schaefer, Karl-Maria Weisthor, and Wilhelm Jordan in my other office. As I recall, each has head-shot photos only and no insignia, although the Sievers file has a number of great Germanic headshots of him and his wife.

I can review these files when I return this evening. Apart from photographic evidence, what other information might answer your questions?

If memory serves, wasn't a Tyr rune also associated with the Ahnenerbe?

Mike

[MJC]

Cook-Russell's book has a pics of Jordan supervising a dig while wearing the RFSS cuff, while a colleague wears the Odalrune with no cuff. Another shows men from his department wearing RFSS cuffs. Some others appear to be wearing cuffs with no writing. I know nothing of uniforms, nor cuffs, so I do not know if this point is relevant.

Mike

[gencom]

Hi Sir Contandy,
Thanks for your help. Your points are relevants as it finally shows that there was more SS members whith the RFSS cuff titles & Leben-Rune raute than the RuSHA or plain cuff title.
If you may share your pics, it would be great.
But, once again, we are still at the same points with this SS member shown on Haye's book with his Leben-rune raute and plain armband.
Thanks in advance.
Regards.

[derek]

In the resettlement photos I have the SS personnel wear the extremely rare SS-Umseidlungskommando cufftitle.<BR>Gencom, you will have to PM me with your email address as I am unable to post photographs on this forum.
Regards,
Derek

[gencom]

Done Derek!
Please, don't forget to send :
"one officer of the R. u S. Hauptamt show him in 1934 wearing the collar patch of an SS-Sturmbannfuehrer, the early RFSS cufftitle and the Lebensborn patch. By 1936 he is wearing the second pattern RFSS title and the Odalrune diamond. Another officer of the RuSHA wears the silver Abteilungsleiter cuffband with double centre lines."
Thank you!!
Regards.
GenCom