SS "summer" tunic for opinions please

[John Pic]

You might be right but how are you certain they "never" wore any? Liebermuster camouflage was always assumed to never have been issued until some photos of Germans wearing it in 1945 showed up.

I am not certain at all. I just don’t see them as I would a smock the SS used. You make a valid point though.

[John Pic]

I understand, but how can it be explained if there is no holes in the tab?
I am assuming no holes. If they are there then maybe indeed my suggestion was ridiculous.

I think they are there just not easy to see.

[NickG]

Nice original untouched NCO Spiess (company first sergeant). Tab should have 1 or 2 pips for this Spiess tunic to be accurate. No question! Either SS Scharfuhrer (1 pip)
or SS Hauptscharfuhrer (2 pips) based on the tab tresse.

[AntiqueWW2]

I can see at least one....and i bet the other one is there too. With this Tunic is really nothing wrong at all. Add some Boards...2 Pipes and you have a real nice Display what i would have no problem to buy and put in my Collection right away.

[NickG]

Der Spiess or Company Sergeant. These "piston rings" or in German "Kolbenringe" showed his status as the NCO in charge. (aka the mother of the company). The lowest rank for Spiess status is "Scharfuhrer" (1 pip and 1 bar on collar tab) but as this early period picture shows even a lowly Unterscharfuhrer could have obtained this status but that is really rare!!!



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[pedroMM]

I understand, but how can it be explained if there is no holes in the tab?
I am assuming no holes. If they are there then maybe indeed my suggestion was ridiculous.

If there were no holes on the tab that would only mean that either that tab or the piston rings,h collar tresse, etc have been added post war.
Anyway, I "want" see at least one, which may make sense.

By the way, it has been stated that the lowest rank for a Spiess was Sharfuhrer (Heer equivalent Unterfeldwebel) but after watching at a lot of SS NCOs I have noticed that this rank was relatively scarce, being the percentage of the immediate lower ( Unterscharfuhrer) and even the immediate higher (Oberscharfuhrer) much more seen.
Has anyone noticed this or is just a biased interpretation on my side?

[John Pic]

Two pips, anyone with eyeballs or good reading glasses can see this.

[ItsWillCmp]

Here is my relative, photo from 1944. One of few Unterscharführer who made speiss.
However I would go with the two pips and not one.
usf.JPG

[pedroMM]

Two pips, anyone with eyeballs or good reading glasses can see this.

Yes, definitely two pips.

I would restore them without a doubt, but that is just my opinion

[Mike TM]

+1

Really? Are you serious? You'd screw up a perfectly original well worn jacket ? I'm truly astounded to hear this this coming from you in particular. Why not just buy a totally stripped jacket and sew on whatever you wan?. I'd be proud to have a totally original untouched jacket in well worn condition just like this rather than one that has been tampered with . With all the squawking about rebadged tunics then this fellow is advised to rebadge one that isn't quite pretty enough , is insanity. I can't take much of what is posted here seriously anymore.

[manayunkman]

Impressive jacket.

If you want you can shape some black fuzz and place it around the eagle edge where needed.

You place it, the fuzziness will hold itself in place, no glue involved.

You can do the same to the collar tabs then the jacket will have a more war time look.

The fuzz can be removed without any damage when the day comes.

[DonC]

Why would a Rottenführer be a company Spiess? I don't see evidence of a removed pip (or two) on the collar tab. EDIT: Just saw pics of the reverse. Went too far ahead in the thread and missed them. ☠

Don

[Max Wünsche]

A very nice SS NCO summer tunic.... I would love this one to go with my summer-weight SS Officer...

Definitely do not restore...

[John T]

Leave it as is, the best to do is put on some slip-on straps, maybe the pips if you can figure it out but do not change the tabs or eagle IMHO

[TP Alexander]

A little advice, if I may please.
I happened to be the one who won this tunic and pants.
I see that LUX MILITARIA in Europe has these for sale.
Would they work on this?
I haven't found anything else and the people that I have checked with haven't had anything either.

https://www.lux-military-antiques.co...lderstraps.htm

895 Euros or something like that.
Still looking for two pips and a button.

Also, as reference, in regards to those 'laundry marks' there was American stuff for sale in that same auction, from the same Private.
I bid on it but didn't get it. Short attention span, I guess!
Tim

PS- The information from the auction, regarding these two lots.
It was actually close enough to me that they suggested that I hop over the mountains into South Carolina to save the credit card fees, shipping and insurance.
Only a 2 & 1/2 hour drive one way.
Not bad really.
I've driven 22 hours for a machine gun!!

LOT 142

Hauptfeldwebel Der Spiess with Riding Pants - Complete Private Purchase set found by consignor's grandfather in a barn in germany, right after the war - Brought back by John B. Graham of the 3rd Infantry Division after the war along with his combat uniform with matching laundry stamps in LOT 369. John B. Graham also brought back other things such as some of the german medals after this lot. I would describe this uniform as the tunic in Good condition for well over 70 years old, and the pants are excellent. Matching stamp on both Tunic and pants, (B1185), possibly a laundry stamp? Construction consists of a Non black light glowing Thin Brown cotton with field grey metal buttons and a dark green collar. Silver NCO braid, black collar tabs (right side with runes in silver-grey RZM embroidery, left side with partial rank). Embroidered left sleeve eagle on a black base (partially coming off, left side of wing is affixed with a pin to keep from hanging off and getting damaged). Two rows of rank braid (tress) around the cuff. Non-Glowing Green NCO jodhpurs, or riding pants. The button for the bottom left pocket came loose and is in the pocket. ////// SS-Hauptscharfuhrer- Given the small break in stitching and moth holes on the left collar tab, as well as the NCO tresse, it would make sense that the left collar tab is missing one rank bar and 2 pips, which would indeed give the SS-Hauptscharfuhrer rank, which is a senior NCO. Based on the two silver cuff rings (nicknamed "piston rings") indentifying him as a Hauptfeldwebel, or company Spieß ("Spear") or Der Spiess, which was the position that oversaw unit discipline, administration, and logistics given to the senior NCO. In the German Wehrmacht, Hauptfeldwebel was not a rank but a position title or appointment, equivalent to the Commonwealth company sergeant major or U.S. company-level first sergeant.


US STUFF-LOT 361??
Double Breasted Long Wool Coat, Uniforms, Garrison Caps, Ties, 1943 Dated Web Belt, and More. Most have matching stamps. The laundry stamp "B8845" can be seen on multiple pieces as well as the nazi uniform in LOT 142. John B. Grahm brought that uniform back from the war along with his combat uniform and clothing, and that must be a laundry stamp. Also included in this lot are multiple 3rd Infantry Division pieces such as framed newspaper, scrapbook, and 3 actual books with 1 being sealed. A lot of stuff on Beachhead. Very interesting readings and original items in this lot.
This outfit was at Anzio.