LW Paratrooper Uberfallhosen: Metal or aluminum belt buckles?

[Scott A. Hess]

Last shot..for now..showing two interesting details

[David Fettes]

Scott (please notice use of first name) I feel your trousers are original Luftwaffe Drillich which has the right number of buttons in the correct places (rear views and fly placement). The use of dark cotton for the stitching is a bit unusual but all looks correct. Are there any markings on the inside that gives a date at all. Nice Alu buckles by the way.

[Scott A. Hess]

Scott (please notice use of first name) I feel your trousers are original Luftwaffe Drillich which has the right number of buttons in the correct places (rear views and fly placement). The use of dark cotton for the stitching is a bit unusual but all looks correct. Are there any markings on the inside that gives a date at all. Nice Alu buckles by the way.

Sorry David, no disrespect meant There are no numbers as to date, Im just assuming pre 43, so 40-42 as they are pre RB, but there are one set of markings I'll post.

[David Fettes]

Sorry David, no disrespect meant

Non taken but it was like being back in school!!

There are no numbers as to date, Im just assuming pre 43, so 40-42 as they are pre RB, but there are one set of markings I'll post.

Look forward to seeing them

[Scott A. Hess]

So, one last picture of...to me..interest. On the FRONT of the bottom (not the reverse) of the pocket appears the following stamp.... 10Gr.1021 Although not the same number as the pants which started this thread, I do believe it is the same type of stamping, what it means, I dont know.
In post 29 of this thread...

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...nnstadt&page=2

Steve mentions the markings, as he says all the same number, on the reverse of the fake LITZMANNSTADT trousers to be G2907 I dont know why that number was chosen, however, it is possible the fakers had a pair like the first one shown, or similar, and the stamping was just not easy to make out, so they came up with "G2907"..speculative but a possibility, and marked all their pants in this fashion.
The drillich I posted, with Davids, I do believe lend credibility to the original UFH being original, unless someone can convince me that the drillich hosen I posted/own are bad.

[David Fettes]

The drillich I posted, with Davids, I do believe lend credibility to the original UFH being original, unless someone can convince me that the drillich hosen I posted/own are bad.

I would have to agree, as I believe your drillich hosen to be original.

Another set of drillichs I used to own, again showing Alu buckles (note different colour buttons)

[Scott A. Hess]

Those are a nice pair of pants David, the larger buttons look to be glass. These particular drillich pants are not all to sought after nor admired by most collectors, I assume. However, I think there is a lot to be gained by studying these not so fancy items as it pertains to the manufacture of other items which are more sought after. Much of the exact same construction details materials hardware and refinement you see on these pants will also be seen throughout the gamut of other clothing items.

I would also agree 100 hundred percent with Willis assessment that the notion that aluminum buckles at the waist are a sign of reproductions is a complete collector generated myth originally Born out of a healthy degree of skepticism, but should hopefully be put to rest.

[17thairborne]

Gentlemen, I am too new at this to comment on any aspect of originality, I'll leave that to you as I learn more, but I must say I am impressed with the details you have so kindly shared with all of us. I am now convinced of the originality of the set I am looking to purchase. I will scrape the funds together and when they arrive I'll post some more images.

Thanks again!

[David Fettes]

Indeed, drillich work gear is so often overlocked but a uniform collection is not complete without a pair, be it Heer, Luftwaffe, KM or SS.

[John Hodgin]

[QUOTE=Scott A. Hess;6964029] are marked L.W. --this does not stand for Luftwaffe, just a makers name,

Remember that this mark is not that of a single manufacturer, but of an organization of companies within the Litzmannstadt (Lodz) Ghetto. Because of this, there is large variation in materials and components among pieces with the Litzmannstadt marking.

[Scott A. Hess]

[QUOTE=John Hodgin;6964159]

are marked L.W. --this does not stand for Luftwaffe, just a makers name,

Remember that this mark is not that of a single manufacturer, but of an organization of companies within the Litzmannstadt (Lodz) Ghetto. Because of this, there is large variation in materials and components among pieces with the Litzmannstadt marking.

Hello John, thanks, do you think the LW on the buttons could stand for Litzmannstadt Wirtschaftsamt? There is a very good book on the subject (Lodz Ghetto) which I have, called Lodz Ghetto Inside a Community under Siege by Viking Press. It is a companion book to a film. It is obviously not light reading, but it is quite fact filled. There are several areas of the book which goes into great detail as to the various concerns that made up the industries there, chiefly clothing and tailoring, lots of good information beginning on page 71 entitled "Chronology of the Ghettos Industry"...has specific reference to locations of various shops, etc.

I know that Gebruder Dietzel was located there, and made amongst other things VERY high quality 3rd pattern jump smock..(Im sure you know this) even up till december of 44, however, I have always wondered, I believe the ghetto was finally cleared in Sept of 44, so did polish workers make these articles?

[John Hodgin]

[QUOTE=Scott A. Hess;6964179]

Hello John, thanks, do you think the LW on the buttons could stand for Litzmannstadt Wirtschaftsamt?

I know that Gebruder Dietzel was located there, and made amongst other things VERY high quality 3rd pattern jump smock..(Im sure you know this) even up till december of 44, however, I have always wondered, I believe the ghetto was finally cleared in Sept of 44, so did polish workers make these articles?

Hey Scott,

On the first, I always assumed so, but have no concrete knowledge to confirm this.

On the second, the Russians were very close in December of 44 and it's unlikely that any workers were still there. IMHO production was likely relocated to Germany when the Ghetto was cleared.

[SMP]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread - I have learned a lot , as have the fakers I think !


Scott, I suspect you are correct - the fakers copied a genuine WL made pair of trousers , but had to guess at the GR stamp .

I am happy that the trousers originally posted are good ones.

[Scott A. Hess]

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread - I have learned a lot , as have the fakers I think !


Scott, I suspect you are correct - the fakers copied a genuine WL made pair of trousers , but had to guess at the GR stamp .

I am happy that the trousers originally posted are good ones.

Hello Steve, it certainly was not my intention to print a detailed roadmap for fakers to follow. It is really a tough call. Without shedding some light on some of the details, no one wins, but the fakers. The collector will always lose. The collector also loses when fine items are dismissed as fakes.

Even with this knowledge, the fakers still cannot and I believe will not be able to construct something 100 hundred percent fool proof. There are still some details I did not show, and these are the details that you really have to pick up as I'm sure you have through decades of handling and examining these items and finding the minute details and understanding their purpose. I certainly did not mean to step on anyone's toes posting some of these details, but I do feel that The purpose of this and other forums is defeated if we don't learn together.