70th Anniversary Battle of Britain

[BenVK]

Being British, I have the upmost respect for the young fighter pilots that flew in the BoB and feel immensely proud of their achievements.

However, with another anniversary celebration currently in full flow with the media milking it for all it's worth, I can't help feeling a little embarrassed. As the years go by, the true facts get even more lost in the clouds of media enduced patriotic fever. The BBC news tonight was so full of clichés and errors it was really quite nauseating.

I've read all the books and seen all the documentaries. I don't think that anyone who has studied the battle would argue that we, the RAF and the nation were anything less than extremely lucky to have thwarted the Luftwaffe from gaining air superiority over Southern England in 1940.

It's always been my vain hope that after so many years, a bit more respect and adulation for the aircrew of the Luftwaffe would be publicly recognised. Leaving all questions of morality and right and wrong aside for a moment, no one should question the bravery of the young Luftwaffe aircrew that flew and died and were just obeying orders with the upmost of professionalism despite knowing it was a battle that they could not realistically win.

So, amongst the fever of British flag waving, I would also like to pay my respects to those Luftwaffe men that did their duty so bravely and paid such a high cost, especially the bomber crews.

You are not forgotten.

[tally ho]

Your two statements, that "the RAF and the nation were anything less than extremely lucky to have thwarted the Luftwaffe from gaining air superiority over Southern England in 1940," and "the young Luftwaffe aircrew that flew and died and were just obeying orders with the upmost of professionalism despite knowing it was a battle that they could not realistically win," are mutually incompatible.

If the RAF was simply lucky to have thwarted the Luftwaffe, then it follows that the Luftwaffe was quite superior, and their pilots would have been confident of inevitable victory.

If the Luftwaffe pilots knew it was a battle they could not win, there had to have been solid reasons for feeling that way; reasons that favored the British, and were something more than luck.

[JG 51]

Good call BenVK. The luftwaffe pilots and aircrew must not be forgotten

tallo ho: the german defeat was due to the extreme incompetence of Hitler and Göring and not the Luftwaffe.

[Harry]

Brave young men on all sides, doing a job they morally believed in, whether right or wrong, and got to fly at the same time! Any 19-20 year old would jump at the chance - regardless of what uniform they flew in. The commonwealth can rightly celebrate, but in Germany even to this day a nations shame prevents even the grieving for those brave men lost. That denial of grief on a personal level, is sad in itself.

I don't think it is Ben's intention to open a debate on how the outcome of the BoB was achieved, but was merely to remind us, during a time of celebration, of the sacrifice of the of aircrew on all sides involved -

[tally ho]

Good call BenVK. The luftwaffe pilots and aircrew must not be forgotten

I'm sure the Londoners' whose homes were destroyed and family members killed have not forgotten them.

tallo ho: the german defeat was due to the extreme incompetence of Hitler and Göring and not the Luftwaffe.

No one said the Luftwaffe was incompetent.

The British victory was due to Dowding's extreme competence, beginning long before the Battle.

And, BTW, there is no "equality" between the RAF and the Luftwaffe, as far as the BoB is concerned. There's a large moral difference between defending one's homeland, and attacking another's.

And, Ben, IIRC, "just following orders" was no defense at Nuremberg.

[SMP]

There's a large moral difference between defending one's homeland, and attacking another's.

.

Quite right !

Thank God for the RAF

[Pierre]

IMO luck was also in the game as for the outcome of the BoB. We can't rewrite history but perhaps without General Wever's death in an airplane crash before WWII other tactical choices could have been made like four engined bombers instead of the He 111 or Ju 88.

Pierre

[BenVK]

I don't think it is Ben's intention to open a debate on how the outcome of the BoB was achieved, but was merely to remind us, during a time of celebration, of the sacrifice of the of aircrew on all sides involved -

Thank you Harry, that's was my one and only intention.

[Beau Brummel.]

you probably should have chosen your words more carefully.

Whilst MANY people respect the bravery of the Luftwaffe aircrews, and did so at the time, I suspect asking people to IDOLISE them may be taking things a little far.

Or did you get confused and use the wrong word?

Any well grounded person can see through the media hype surrounding this celebration. That's what the media do, hype stuff to make money and exert control. Whilst you profess your patriotism I'm afraid your thread Is laden with more than a little ambiguity which could easily be misinterpreted.

It would be Interesting to see the reactions this thread would have garnered had you posted It In the commonwealth section .

Guy.

[BenVK]

you probably should have chosen your words more carefully.

Maybe you should have too?

The word I used was adulation not idolisation. There is a big difference, at least in my mind.

But I do take onboard that using any word like adulation or admiration or even respect can be read the wrong way. Words can be twisted to mean anything you want them to be. Happens all the time on this forum.

[Beau Brummel.]

Touche!

[RamJet]

I have understand Ben's statement from the beginning on only as a reminder that on both sides young men fought and died. Of course we all know which side has attacked and which one defended.

And Pierre is also right: The whole Luftwaffe of 1940 wasn't the instrument to win any strategic war, from the aircraft and clearly also from the leadership.

My five cents.




What I want to know as I have no chance to visit London this year as usual: How is the 70th anniversary remembered, how takes it place in the public life? And what about the planned BoB tower of the RAF museum in Hendon? Last thing I heard was an impressive building which should be ready and open in 2015 for the 75th anniversary.

[JG 51]

Tally ho: As stated before this thread is not for you to dishonor the brave LW pilots. War is hell on both sides no matter what. Both the RAF and the LW pilots have 100% of my respect.

[tally ho]

And just how do I "dishonor the brave LW pilots"? By pointing out that they were attacking another's country?

Maybe I should honor (or adulate) those brave LW pilots who bombed Guernica, or Rotterdam. Or those brave Stuka pilots who made the Blitzkrieg possible.

[BenVK]

Tally Ho, why do you insist on giving us a history lesson in nearly every thread you respond to? For example:

Those "kia lw personnel" weren't exactly fighting for your freedom--or theirs either, come to mention it.
(Appreciate your freedom? Perhaps you should learn a bit about the Dutch resistance.)

I know that you have some great Luftwaffe items in your collection, this FW190 spinner is one example. Seems strange that you collect such things when you have such a strong negative view of the Luftwaffe.