70th Anniversary Battle of Britain

[tally ho]

Notice the .50 cal bullet holes. My adulation goes to the guys who put 'em there.

[BenVK]

Oh well.

Anyway, The RAF museum in Hendon, London has a lot going on this weekend. I'm planning on going, should be good.

http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/london/

[tally ho]

Will they be honoring the brave LW pilots?

Oh, wait... That was the premise of this thread. They won't be.

(Of course, had the Battle gone the other way, there might not be an RAF Museum today.)

[JG 51]

Will they be honoring the brave LW pilots?

Oh, wait... That was the premise of this thread. They won't be.

(Of course, had the Battle gone the other way, there might not be an RAF Museum today.)

You just can´t leave it can you ?

[Gran Sasso]

Maybe I should honor (or adulate) those brave LW pilots who bombed Guernica, or Rotterdam. Or those brave Stuka pilots who made the Blitzkrieg possible.

Go ahead, and "honor" your brave pilots instead, who killed 100.000+ innocent civilians for nothing, for no military object!

[tally ho]

I wouldn't go there if I were you; do you really want to start talking about the TR and the killing of innocent civilians "for no military objective"?

[Gran Sasso]

I wouldn't go there if I were you; do you really want to start talking about the TR and the killing of innocent civilians "for no military objective"?

Why not? Do you think I am araid of this or what??? You think just because you won the war, you are automaticly right? Sorry, I dont fit in this picture you might have of the germans, I do not sit, just listen, and dont react. I do not feel guilty for what has happenend.

I just cant stand people like you, who comdem what the enemy has done, and glorify absolutely the same actings your own soldiers has done.

So go ahead, I wait - but remember: We are talking about the Luftwaffe here, so stay on this track.

[tally ho]

Well, I was not referring to the Luftwaffe. You know damn well what I was referring to. And it's all of a piece. "My own soldiers" didn't slaughter ten million civilians. Perhaps the brave guards at Buchenwald or Auschwitz should be honored too. Perhaps you should feel a bit guilty--regardless of how you feel about it, your side was morally bankrupt.

I am interested in the LW and the air war because I am a pilot, and because I have relatives that fought. (I'd like to think that my uncle, a B-17 waist gunner, put those holes in the FW190.) So, as I said before, I prefer my LW aircraft artifacts bullet-holed and/or dug out of a very deep hole in the ground.

[Gran Sasso]

Well, I was not referring to the Luftwaffe. You know damn well what I was referring to. And it's all of a piece. "My own soldiers" didn't slaughter ten million civilians. Perhaps the brave guards at Buchenwald or Auschwitz should be honored too. Perhaps you should feel a bit guilty--regardless of how you feel about it, your side was morally bankrupt.

I am interested in the LW and the air war because I am a pilot, and because I have relatives that fought. (I'd like to think that my uncle, a B-17 waist gunner, put those holes in the FW190.) So, as I said before, I prefer my LW aircraft artifacts bullet-holed and/or dug out of a very deep hole in the ground.

I see - as expexted you are one of those, too, with whom one cannot discuss on a civilian way, and only about ONE theme.

The germans are guilty - fact (your words). You make it for yourself very easy that way

You started with blaming the LW, but you cannot keep the track, so lets end it here.

I dont wanna go down to your level, by saying "what about 14 million indians YOUR people (note, I am not saying "soldiers", like you did) systimaticly killed, just because they do not fit in your new world?" From here I could go on to Andersonville, via Vietnam all the way to Iraq - but I didnt. ME have tried to keep the track, but you...
Those discussions leed to nothing, but as usually one that claims ALL germans are bad cannot discuss, and once he his asked to focuse on ONE theme (which you started) you simply pull out the card "Bad german", and thats it.

I should have known from the start this would be another waste of time.

Happy collecting and live - I wonder how you make it throught live with that one-sided glorification, though. But thats not my problem.

[tally ho]

I never said anything about "all Germans." I'm talking about the TR. And if you think there is moral equality between the Axis and the Allies, you're quite wrong.

Why don't you take that chip off your shoulder? You seem to be going through life with the attitude that anytime anyone criticizes any part of the TR he's saying that "all Germans are bad." Maybe you feel more guilty than you realize.

Perhaps you're right in one sense though. Had it not been for those brave LW pilots attacking them, the British would not today have "The Few."

[BenVK]

Tally H.

You've barely got 50 posts under your belt but it's already obvious that you like to stir up ill feelings.

This forum is not a soapbox for your own moral beliefs and views which are disturbing to say the least. Saying things like "I prefer my LW aircraft artifacts bullet-holed and/or dug out of a very deep hole in the ground" along with the other things you have written show's a real sense of hatred and bitterness.

That's very worrying especially since you say you're a pilot youself.

I sincerely advise you to chill out and relax a bit otherwise your stay here will no doubt be a short one.

[tally ho]

I'm just wondering, Ben--where do you draw the line in celebrating the Nazi war machine? The Luftwaffe BoB pilots OK, but, say, the Gestapo or SS not so much?

I hope you'll forgive the fact that I am not willing to celebrate any part of a regime that tortured, gassed, shot, and burned more than six million of my people, out of nothing but pure hatred. And did their best to conquer all of Europe, as well.

And what does the fact that I'm a pilot have to do with it? I wish no ill will on anyone, German or otherwise, flying today.

It seems to me, Ben, that you--and others--are saying that bravery is a morally-neutral quality, and should be celebrated regardless of the circumstances under which it was displayed. That, for example, we should celebrate the bravery of a man who sacrificed his own life that no more children should be sent to gas chambers, and the bravery of a man who sacrificed his own life that all of Europe should live under a regime that would continue to kill those children.

Sorry, but I don't agree that bravery in the service of evil should be honored. And that's not hatred, or bitterness. It's a moral decision on my part.

[BenVK]

Sincere word of advice mate.

You might not have noticed but this is a Third Reich collectors forum. The Allied sections are not the main focus here.

Get over it or at least leave your morals views at the door otherwise you wont last long here. By that I mean there are rules here about ranting on about the right and wrong of the TR and if you don't abide by them, one of the mods will ban you eventualy.

[tally ho]

Thanks for the thoughtful reply.

And I am a TR collector--that's why I'm here. I just don't collect for the same reasons as you.

[Jos L C]

I'm closing this thread, no fights allowed here ..



Jos.