Luftwaffe snow camo

[frank savage]

Jos, I'm talking about the eagle...
Is too strange, in a design never seen before, with awful body, head end so tiny HK...
I don't know why this kind of anorak have to get an eagle different in most of its parts to almost all the bird knows as original, and embroired directly on the jacket itself... as never was made for a WWII german garnment... I have handled one of that, and it didn't like me .. for nothing! I wouldn't for sure in my collection.

IMHO, obviusly.

[John Hodgin]

Agree with Harry and Frank on the early style eagles. Do not like either of them.

And am still questioning why these early eagles are subdued, when tropical subdued eagles were not manufactured until the mid war period and camo backed subdued eagles were not produced until very late war.

How many subdued "droop tail" eagles are in collections out there? Either backed on white or not?

The later example posted by Jerry is the only one I like.

John

[Jos L C]

Well, never say never .. I think I once saw a member having a few bleu/grey thread droop tails coming from vet, can't recall who it was though.

When it comes to funny eagles, I bet there're still 1000nds we've never seen before, even a thin swas isn't a thing to call them fake in the first place.
The main thing is if it was done wartime or not, plus the fact that we have no chance to see the back of the eagles .
Reminds me of a nice tropical jacket of which the owner removed the eagle to have us take a look at the back, because not many had seen that type of eagle before, eagle was fine afterall ..
The droops are odd, but it's all I can say at the moment.

The only good picture we've shows a standard blue eagle, that's a pity..

Jos.

[Willi Z.]

So, someone removed the original eagle and replaced it with a fake?

I would be pretty suspicious if the eagle, 1st or 2nd model, was anything but gray in this case. Should the early eagle be white? I don't think subdued has anything to do with it.

I am sorry but I strongly disagree in declaring it a fake on something we have only seen a few examples of.

[John Hodgin]

Another detail to consider. Early droop tail eagles are embroidered of matte (white) thread. The silver grey thread these are embroidered from have a sheen seen in later wartime birds. Another atypical detail requiring verification or some provenance before I'd "declare" them good.

As with subdued droop tails, please show another droop tail made from shiny thread. I can't, mine are extremely matte, as the waffenfarbe on early tunics.

If these birds are good, are we to consider they were wartime produced?

[Willi Z.]

Early droop tail eagle on wool with a more gray than usual eagle and a sheen to the thread as well. Though not as gray as the one in question, when compared with other early droop tails eagles it is certainly not a white bird.

Are we to consider them to be fake because we haven't seen them before, and they don't quite fit the "mold"?

[Willi Z.]

Same early droop tail with others, and another white camo eagle.

[Willi Z.]

...

[Gene]

My original example, vet-removed

[frank savage]

Hi all!

Excuse me, Gene, but I'm not still convinced. Lots of time I have heared about vet story, brings back and so on. Lots of time (it is not for sure your case), those was made for endorse fake. Lots of time they are fall in their hands who knows why and don't remember if they own it till the end of WWII or not. Lots of time they embrace strange productions, most of time, never found sewn on original jacket. I have handled lots of 'first hand' item, found in the red cross bags that came in italy from german, austria and so on, for recycling... There wasn't anybody between the stuff chuck by the vet and us that we found... So, I have never seen nothing like this among that stuff, or any friends either. I cannot handled all the wehrmacht production, is right, but is strange that nothing like this was never passed under my (or those of another 'founder') eyes. And the stuff that passed by was lots.
I still didn't like the design, never seen on other undoubtable jacket, and (I could be wrong for sure) I wouldn't for me!

Always ready to admit the error due to evidence of his originality, the skeptical Frank Savage, without any claim to profess verb!!!!

Take care!

[John Hodgin]

Same early droop tail with others, and another white camo eagle.

Thanks Willi, good illustration. You are helping convince me. So these snow anoraks were being produced prewar. Interesting. Still, were I going to own one of these, it would be like the one Jerry posted.

[Gene]

Ciao Frank,

I'm not trying to convince anyone. This eagle is 100% pre-war in my opinion and I presented an example that I'm completely comfortable with. I've handled many pieces of loose insignia over the decades and many 1935 pattern Luftwaffe eagles among them. Basically no two are alike. Willi presented a grouping of various early eagles that are all spot on originals. Based on my experience with these eagles, I say with complete certainty that they are pre-war beauties and that eagle sewn directly to the jacket is an amazing original as well.

Gene

[frank savage]

Hi Gene!

I undestand you, and I hope that I was not too much rude, but I'm still stand by in my idea... I'm not convinced, however not from the evidence presented...

Why the eagle have a design and a 'mood' different to all the eagle common sewn on jacket and deemed original?

Why it was sewn directly on the anorak as never seen before or after? Not even on jacket of the other branch?

Quite strange...

Still, were I going to own one of these, it would be like the one Jerry posted.

I agree...

Cheers!!!

[Michael N]

Nice early set Willi, if I was collecting Luftwaffe Pilots gear this would be a great set to keep in my collection.

As for the thread used, thats what they had at hand. Dont believe it was done for camouflage pruposes at that point in time.

Gene, thats a great eagle! The vet story is something I would believe before say the comments of an individual addressing himself in the third person.

[Harry]

[Are we to consider them to be fake because we haven't seen them before, and they don't quite fit the "mold"?[/QUOTE]

That is the dilemma of our hobby.

From what I have learnt, many of these survival sets that have cropped up in recent years have originated from Norway. Is it possible they were manufactured there, it might explain the unusual eagles, the unusual 5-sided shape to the sewn-on trapezoidal insignia, and the zig-zag stitching used to attach it - 'normally' trapezoid insignia are stitched with an in-line continuous stitch rather than a zig-zig pattern are they not?