Luftwaffe M-41 Cap

[Bill Gracie]

G'day John,

I have re- read Halcomb's book again, I see she mentions the the Tropical cap is CUT in the style of M43. Sometimes these reference books ain't that clear in their writing. I've learnt something new, as to the cap I "concerned" at the mint appearance. John, I would be very ..very interested in your opinion of this cap.

Willi's, statement about the adler being white is new to me. Willi, is this a personal observation or is it written is regulations. The reason I'm asking these questions is; this style of cap is going to be my next purchase.

Regards,
Bill

[John Hodgin]

Hi guys,

Just got in from a twelve hour shoot (night photos too) in the NC heat and humidity. I'm beat, haven't had dinner, so I'm outta here. Here is the interior to consider and I'll comment some tomorrow.
Best,

John

[Bill Gracie]

G'day John,

I have been looking at various photos of this style of cap. All are different, which makes it very hard for me to assess the authenticity of any cap. I have noticed there is a great variance in the scallop of the fake flap, some are shallow some are very steep. As to the alder, many of the pictures, B&W, show varying degree's of colour some look dull white colour others show a colour that blends in with the khaki- brown cloth. Now having seen the inside I would shy away from this cap as my in- experience is screaming... Bill you don't have any bloody idea. Why would I pass, because I get very nervous of mint articles.
I don't like the numerals very boxy. I would've expected the ends of the numerals to be a bit bulbous.

Please Guys, correct me if I'm wrong.

John, I have found this thread to be of great benefit to me. This is what I originally expected of this forum a learning experience with help from people who've collected for years and not just a show and tell.

thanks
Bill

[J Melvin]

John, the interior photo gives the cap a much greener look than the two exterior photos. So, for being true Luft issue, that's a bit of a concern. Light colored interior goes well with Luft clothing issue. But, again, another berg feature with the partial leather liner that looks to be a bit thick. Something about the shot of the grommets that you've also given as part of the interior is bothersome as well. Then, the expected markings for an early cap. This one definitely gives off mixed signals.

I'll agree with Bill, the cap looks unissued. In a size that should have been used up....

[Willi Z.]

My opinion and initial response to this hat when I got the email a few weeks ago, was that I would pass on this cap. I now feel even more strongly about a . Too many "concerns". Gene is right about the superb repros available, and when you compound this with the fact that these are the toughest type of headgear to find (IMO), it makes for a very difficult scenario.

Bill, if I may.....book answers on this piece will not help much. Personal observations carry alot of weight in matter such as this. Hence my comment on the eagle..and the top seam....and now the interior. Whose collection these hats come from mean alot to most. CM had some fine hats, John has some fine ones, I think Jack has a couple, one of mine came from a very old DAK collection (PH), known to have been one of the best collections in the world and my other one (officers) also came from a very old collection, and is featured in the Halcomb book. Like many other trop items, the repros make it very tough today to build a collection of items such as these. Just alittle philosophy...

Willi

[J Melvin]

Bill, here is a link to a thread that shows one of the three M41s that I own: M41 . I searched a long time before finding one. The first one that I got was actually one that I believe is from a KM manufacturer of caps. The second out of Collector's Guild. This one came third from a Luft collector that was liquidating his collection.

[J Melvin]

Bill, here is a link to a thread that shows one of the three M41s that I own: M41 . I searched a long time before finding one. The first one that I got was actually one that I believe is from a KM manufacturer of caps. The second out of Collector's Guild. This one came third from a Luft collector that was liquidating his collection.

As an aside, I agree with Willi, the M41 is one of the toughest pieces of headgear. However, that thread will also show you three other really tough pieces, a feldgrau officer's M43 with feldgrau insignia, a feldgrau enlisted overseas cap with feldgrau insignia and the blue pith helmet.

[Rolf D.]

If the leather is a concern...

I have an EM single button Luftwaffe M/43 m/44 or m/45 whichever typ had the single button. This piece came directly from a vet with and the leather i on the inside of the liner like this one...whether or not the DAK used the leather???

[Gene]

I agree with Willi that the M41 is a tough hat to find, but I think a black Luftwaffe M43 cap is more scarce. I have never seen one I was comfortable with, enlisted or officer.

[Bill Gracie]

G'day Guys,

Willi, I agree with you about finding answers from reference books, infact they bring out more questions than answers. Halcomb's book does mention that on Heer M40 caps (tropo) the eagle should be a khaki- brown colour I would have to assume that this would be the same for luft Tropo caps. Oh! looks like be the one doing the school kids "Show and Tell" :-)

[John Hodgin]

Hello all,

Bill, many thanks for the kind words, I'm very happy this thread has been a good experience. The owner of this cap has returned it to the vendor, so I think he is happy as well

All of the details everyone has pointed out have been good. Like Willi said, judging a cap like this only from photos is very, very tough.

As Jack said, the bill of this cap is too short. These caps were designed to protect the wearer's eyes from the desert sun, and a longer bill was part of this design.

The color of the cap is too green, though some Luft. tropical web gear does have a strong green cast. And then there are true green Luftwaffe tropical belts and sun helmets.

The eagle is pure reproduction, and Willi's observation about the white eagle being a danger sign is generally correct. However Willi, white tropical cap eagles may exist, we just haven't seen them. I have a tropical tunic with a white eagle and have another white eagle that was removed from a tunic.

I've never seen an M-41 with a partial leather sweat band though they too might exist.

The grommets don't show 62 years of age, but then I have a smock who's snaps look like they were made yesterday. The gromments are similar to a style that some Luft. M-41 makers did use.

Only one WWII maker I know of did sew the eagle on in a triangle like this cap has, without folding the backing along the edge of the eagle's wing tops, but this was always hand sewn on by this particular maker.

The lining is a coarser material, something you could not tell from the photo. All the M-41's I've seen had a lining that was very soft, and therefore comfortable.

This cap is a total fake, made to fool collectors, not made for reenacting.



Best and thanks,
John

[J Melvin]

I agree with Gene. A black M43. That's a really rare one.