This cap was mailed to me by a friend who wanted my opinion on it. Thought it would be nice to consider it here.
Insignia.
Insignia.
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Esse Quam Videri -
Cap overview.Esse Quam Videri -
No inside ?....John..Comment
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Originally posted by Jos Le Conté
Yes Jos, the cap does indeed have an inside.
Esse Quam VideriComment
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G'day John,
I thought that I'd have a go at examining this item with my in-experienced eye.
Firstly, I must say it is a lovely looking M43. The style of the cap is correct imo. The machine embroidered emblems appear correct as well. My only concern, and this is small, is the wear and dis-colouration between the cockade and the Adler. The cap appears to be of mint condition. As we are unable to see the inside of the cap I take it that it is lined in either red or tan.
As I said, I not experienced and I'm using this as a learning experience.
Regards, BillComment
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Ok, the double seam is there along the brim, the seam is down the top and under the insignia. The brim, to me, is a bit short for a tropical M41 (more like a berg brim) - but not a death sentence. Insignia looks okay. I've got an officer's version with a trap eagle which I like. So, not a concern. Like Jos, I'd like to see the interior. But, absent that, I'm gonna give it a thumbs up until you tell me why I am wrong.
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John, you sure have the advantage by having this one in your hands. I have some "concerns"...the eagle and cockade for one. The shape of the fake fold on the side. I have seen some other photos of this M41 and did not have a good first impression....but, these are very tough.
WilliWilli
Preußens Gloria!
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Sapere audeComment
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Officer's....Willi
Preußens Gloria!
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Sapere audeComment
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G'day Jack & Willi,
Why is this cap called a M41 instead of a M43? Do you call these Tan caps M41's because of the introduction of the Khaki colour in early 1941. Jill Halcomb el at, in her Vol 1 book, calls these caps M43.
Regards,
BillComment
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Hi Bill,Originally posted by Bill Gracie
Many thanks for jumping in on this one! I wanted to have a discussion on these, not a "here it is, and this is what I think" from me, or Willi, or Chris, whenever CM has time to comment.........:-)
Bill, you answered your own question. These are tropical field caps, first produced in 1941, modeled after the M40 Tropical Heer cap, so how could they be classed as an M-43 which was not produced until two years later?!?
Good eye Jack, the bill IS short, like a mountain cap. IMO Willi is also right with, "these are very tough." Luft. M-41's were factory produced as well as field made, thus there is no hard and fast criteria for judging them.
More tonight,
JohnEsse Quam VideriComment
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OK... without the inside then...
From the outside I do like the cap...Bergmutze typ..
The eagle seems to be applied with the same sewingmachine for the stitches of the eagle are done with the same distance as the upperseam..( this is just a observation,no more..)
I also think it's hard to compare this cap with another..,there're just to less original caps left to do so...you simply don't have all makers to compare..
Now I would like to see the grommets on the inside ,Johnny..!
BTW,it seems that some of the tropical stuff also was produced in Den Haag (Den Hague) here in Holland.
it was marked something like ..Gummiwaren fabriek...Den Haag...
I've seen these markings in a overseas cap and in a one pocket trousers..
Jos.Comment
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I agree there are various variations of trop eagle used on these; hand sewn, folded edges, traps, trop tunic treast eagles, machine stitch lines....and perhaps a white thread eagle like this one. But, the only place I have seen white thread eagles on Luft trop items, is on the shirt......have YET to see one on a trop tunic or overseas cap, or another M41. Only something to ponder.... That seam across the top bothers me too....along with the shape of the side fake fold, in the gromet area. Certainly the inside will help quite a bit.
WilliWilli
Preußens Gloria!
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Sapere audeComment
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G'day John,
Ok! now i'm confused, Pg 60 of Headgear of Hitler's Germany Vol 1 shows the above style of Cap although it is Olive in colour, the luft then produced a copy of the Heer M40 in 1941 in Khaki- brown.
This cap is then designated M41, however, on pg 296 of the same book shows a photo of Tropical M43 which looks very much like the M41 you have pictured, the bill even looks the same (in length). My question is; does this mean if the cap was produced in 1942, 1943 and 1944 the cap take the year produced as the Designator.
John, I hope you can help me with this confusion, am I missing something:-)
BillComment
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Hi Bill,
IMO Halcomb's book, while excellent, is wrong on these caps. M-43 caps are wool, have fold down flaps with a button front. There are field made tan Luftwaffe caps with button flaps that copy the style of the Bergmutze or the 43, but a cap like this, that is modeled on the Heer M-40 is a M-41.
Jos, I'm at work, so no inside til I'm home where the image is. First discuss the insignia
In addition, SUPERB quality tropical Luftwaffe clothing was produced in Amsterdam during the war, under contract from a Berlin company. I will never show the Amsterdam maker's mark though. 
Must rush away,
JohnLast edited by John Hodgin; 08-05-2003, 08:20 AM.Esse Quam VideriComment
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Anyone ever see the beautiful EM and officer M41 caps that Walt Kanzler was selling a few years ago? I heard he was having them made in Poland, but that was never verified. That's the first thing I thought of when I saw John's cap.WAF LIFE COACHComment
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