Kriegsmarine Schützenschnur

[Norm F]

Level 4

Also previously posted by W. C. Stump (if my memory serves me correctly).
Level 4 with gilt shield and gilt acorn for rifle marksmanship. Looks like a beauty.
Note how sometimes the acorn hangs from a metal carbine hook (as on the previous post) while other times it's tied directly on as it is here. Presumably the hook would be mandatory if attaching more than one device.

[Tiger 1]

I have a level 4 lanyard I recently picked up.

I will have to get some photos of it taken as soon as I can.

It has the post 1935 gold device with the oakleaf wreath and one acorn. I don't recall at the moment how many knots it has on the cord.

Tony

[Norm F]

Other Level 4's

I have a level 4 lanyard I recently picked up.

I will have to get some photos of it taken as soon as I can.

It has the post 1935 gold device with the oakleaf wreath and one acorn. I don't recall at the moment how many knots it has on the cord.

Tony

Please do, Tony.
Regarding the number of knots, all the ones I've seen in period photos have 14 knots just like the Army and Luftwaffe M1936 lanyards.

Here's an odd duck. This lanyard is listed on a vendor's site as a Level 4 Torpedo gunner's lanyard. In many ways it matches Angolia's description - blue/silver interwoven cord with the gilt 5cmx1cm torpedo device and the post-1935 oakleaf wreath - but I've never seen one before nor have I yet seen a period photo. This lanyard itself in this photo looks very much like a Luftwaffe lanyard but the ball slides on each end are just silver in the Luftwaffe lanyards, not blue/silver interwoven like this one. It bothers me that this lanyard has only 13 knots. I couldn't imagine shelling out 1200 USD for this without a lot more careful research (and disposable income)!

Has anyone ever seen a KM blue/silver interwoven lanyard to comment?

[Norm F]

Movie of lanyard in wear

Here's a link to some great footage that was mentioned in a previous thread on WAF, showing the homecoming of U-boot commander Gunther Prien after Scapa Flow. If you look at 1:14 in the video there an interesting brief view of the Schützenschnur in wear with one acorn -- a cool piece of history since a few months later this award was discontinued for the rest of the war.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNwyPxa1HcQ

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Bundeswehr?

4. Here is another jacket that came up for sale on e-stand last year from memory, it was a complete rig from an estate sale or family member from memory. The lanyard was with it so I'm assuming it is period.

Hi Justin,
I have serious doubts about this Schützenschnur -- it has 17 knots instead of 14 which suggests Bundeswehr to me. And look how minty fresh it is in contrast to the Paradejackett.
Regards,
---Norm

[Trance_Eyes]

Hi Norm, Thanks for all the additional information, certainly gives a more detailed explanation to the award...
Certinly more information there than I could find on the internet...
The above Schnur may very well be Bundesmarine for sure.....

Keep the info coming guys!!!

[Norm F]

Anhängsel

For reference here's a collage of examples of the hanging devices (Anhängsel) for the KM Schützenschnur:

Top row: acorns in black, silver and gold (Eicheln auß Schwarz- Silber- und Goldmetall) for rifle marksmen (Gewehrschütze)
Bottom row: shell in silver for Cannon/Artillery (Geschütz); winged shell in gold for light Anti-aircraft Gunners; torpedo in gold for Torpedo Gunners (Rohrmeister)

However, bear in mind that the bottom row examples are the only ones I've seen in these categories so far, and so I couldn't say with any certainty whether they are genuine period examples. I have my doubts about the silver shell in the 2nd row -- from the diagram in post #13, I suspect it should look more like the winged shell beside it but without the wings.
Regards,
---Norm

[Trance_Eyes]

Please do, Tony.
Regarding the number of knots, all the ones I've seen in period photos have 14 knots just like the Army and Luftwaffe M1936 lanyards.

Here's an odd duck. This lanyard is listed on a vendor's site as a Level 4 Torpedo gunner's lanyard. In many ways it matches Angolia's description - blue/silver interwoven cord with the gilt 5cmx1cm torpedo device and the post-1935 oakleaf wreath - but I've never seen one before nor have I yet seen a period photo. This lanyard itself in this photo looks very much like a Luftwaffe lanyard but the ball slides on each end are just silver in the Luftwaffe lanyards, not blue/silver interwoven like this one. It bothers me that this lanyard has only 13 knots. I couldn't imagine shelling out 1200 USD for this without a lot more careful research (and disposable income)!

Has anyone ever seen a KM blue/silver interwoven lanyard to comment?

I have never seen one of these before Norm But saying this it fits perfectly into the description provided regarding the level 4 woven blue with aluminium for torpedo gunners. I guess its an "OK" example... Thing is I'm sure less of these would have been awarded making this a rare example. I'm keen to see the example to be posted by TIGER1....

[Norm F]

number of knots

I have never seen one of these before Norm But saying this it fits perfectly into the description provided regarding the level 4 woven blue with aluminium for torpedo gunners. I guess its an "OK" example... Thing is I'm sure less of these would have been awarded making this a rare example.

But I'm still not convinced about that Torpedo Gunner's lanyard because of it having only 13 knots in the braid. Every period photo I've seen has had 14 knots, including all the examples in Angolia/Schlicht's Die Kriegsmarine and in Gordon Williamson's "Torpedo Los!".

I came across this photo of someone's Opa from a German militaria forum which hopefully is okay to post here (My German's not good enough to register and post on the forum to find out, but it was there for all to see). It's a good clear shot of the Level 1 Schützenschnur with black acorn. Once again, contrary to some descriptions out there, the KM Level 1 has an acorn, unlike the Heer and Luftwaffe Level 1 which have a shield and no acorn until you get to the next level. I've never seen a KM lanyard in wear without an acorn.

Cheers.
---Norm

[Norm F]

rare shot

Here's a really rare shot from the same source showing the same fellow later on in his career as a Coastal Artillery Maat. This is the first photo I've seen showing the Level 4 KM Schützenschnur in wear with the field grey Feldbluse. Too bad it's so grainy, but fascinating nevertheless.
Regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

another anomaly

I have never seen one of these before Norm But saying this it fits perfectly into the description provided regarding the level 4 woven blue with aluminium for torpedo gunners. I guess its an "OK" example... Thing is I'm sure less of these would have been awarded making this a rare example.

Hi Justin,
I noticed another anomaly on that Torpedo gunners lanyard. The smaller braid on the lower end between the ball knot and the button loop has 4 knots on the usual blue lanyard whereas this one has 6 -- this probably is to compensate for having only 13 knots in the main portion to try to make up the length.
Again until we see some more Level 4 lanyards it's hard to be definitive but I still have my concerns at this time.
Regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Luftwaffe vs. Kriegsmarine Anhängsel

For reference here's a collage of examples of the hanging devices (Anhängsel) for the KM Schützenschnur:

Top row: acorns in black, silver and gold (Eicheln auß Schwarz- Silber- und Goldmetall) for rifle marksmen (Gewehrschütze)
Bottom row: shell in silver for Cannon/Artillery (Geschütz); winged shell in gold for light Anti-aircraft Gunners; torpedo in gold for Torpedo Gunners (Rohrmeister)

However, bear in mind that the bottom row examples are the only ones I've seen in these categories so far, and so I couldn't say with any certainty whether they are genuine period examples. I have my doubts about the silver shell in the 2nd row -- from the diagram in post #13, I suspect it should look more like the winged shell beside it but without the wings.
Regards,
---Norm

Sometimes I find it useful to compare and contrast the KM pics to other services' lanyards.

For example in Luftwaffe lanyards in the following collage you see:
A. a period Luft portrait showing the Luft acorn (Eichel). At this resolution it looks similar to a KM acorn but if you look carefully there's no eyelet showing at the attachment and --
B. shows a modern photo of the Luft acorn - woven in metallic thread.
C. shows a period Luft portrait with the hanging device of the shell (Granate) for artillery.
D. shows a modern photo of a Luft lanyard clearly showing the shells (Granaten)
E. shows for comparison the example in the previous post which I found on Andre Huesken's site in the KM section. Looks a lot like a Luft Anhängsel...
These Luft shells attached to the lanyard in a different manner than the KM acorns since they had no eyelet; instead the top of shell screws off and a twisted wire is threaded through a hole in its centre and knotted in some manner before screwing the cap back on.
I suspect the elusive KM shell would look more like the winged shell seen earlier from Weitze's site, and would have an eyelet to attach by thread to the KM lanyard - but we need to see one!

Where are all you closet Kriegsmarine Schützenschnur afficionados out there?!

[Norm F]

dark blue lanyard

...my first (and only so far) Schützenschnur is this dark blue silk one pictured here with no devices. I acquired it before I had done any research and have some doubts now. It's the right length and construction to be genuine but I have never yet seen another in this darker shade of blue and so cannot vouch for its authenticity at this time. They did however seem to come in various shades of blue, varying from light blue to medium-dark blue wool, and bright to darker blue silk. Angolia/Schlicht state that the standard Navy issue lanyards were in wool or interwoven wool/aluminum, while the private purchase lanyards could be in blue silk or interwoven blue silk/silver.
Without a hanging device, I think of it as an unissued uniform accessory and not an award of any Level at this time.

Since writing the above, I have finally come across this other photo of a dark blue lanyard like mine so I'm feeling a little more comfortable that this may be a legitimate private purchase variation of a period KM lanyard.
This photo from a German language forum nicely compares it to an original lanyard of a more usual light blue colour.

[Norm F]

period reference

I've just come back from the Toronto Reference Library rare book collection where I discovered "Uniformen der Deutschen Wehrmacht", a german reference from 1939/40 by Eberhard Hettler, a Hauptmann in the Reichsluftfahrtministerium.

I've attached a blurb on the KM Schützenschnur which translates as:

" The acorns, shells and torpedos are
for the 1st award out of black tempered metal
for the 2nd award silvered
for the 3rd award gilt
The Schützenschnur itself is:
for the 1st Award in dark blue wool or silk (one's own Schützenschnur),
for the 2nd and 3rd awards dark blue/aluminum woven through
for the 4th Award the same as second, however with a gilt shield on the rosette, containing a fouled anchor, surrounded by a laurel wreath.
The character of the braid conforms to the sum of the individual awards. Had a soldier, for example, earned the shooting awards first level in rifle, first level in artillery and first level in torpedo, so he would wear a black acorn, black shell and black torpedo on the dark blue/aluminum woven braid of the 3rd [level] award."

This differs somewhat from Angolia/Schlicht, but correlates with the other older source, suggesting that the blue/silver interwoven braid was to be used for award levels 2 through 4. This seems contrary to all the examples of 4th level awards we've seen with the gold shield and acorn on the blue-only braid.
Also Hettler's description provides an interesting scenario in which the three 1st level awards "add up" to a 3rd level award and use the blue/silver interwoven braid.

Why these higher level blue/silver lanyards are vanishingly rare both in hand and in period photos I don't know, but I think perhaps it's because the award of KM lanyards was discontinued in 1940 and so no one had a chance to earn one.

Also, note that, in the document below, the drawing of the shell (Granate) looks just like the winged shell without the wings, and NOT like the Luft shell seen earlier.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Trance_Eyes]

Good work there Norm...

Anyone else able to offer any pictures or information from pieces in their collection?