Kriegsmarine/Reichsmarine/Imperial/Bundesmarine Cap Tallies

[CSForrester]

Very interesting photo there. Do I understand correctly that these 3 talleys of "Marine Lehrkompanie" are all Bundesmarine? The top is an early official sample in artificial silk, below that a metallfaden one in Fraktur and finally a newer one in modern script on the bottom?
But is that middle one which looks metal really an official one - i.e. did they go back to metal thread for a while, or is that a private purchase item again?
Regards,
---Norm

That is correct, Marine Lehrkompanie is Bundesmarine and the metal in center is inofficial. It was the same procedure after 1956, a represents of different producers traveled around the german coast and offered these extra-tallies to shops, suppliers, canteens and dírectly to units. They visited the SVO or SVB (Schiffsverwaltungsoffizier or -Bootsmann) and many thousands of metal thread tallies were sold by this way. When i was a little boy in the 1960s i could buy a lot of metal thread tallies on board of S-boats or minesweepers, i remember they were single wrapped in ricepaper and i had to pay nothing (i was 9 or 10 years) or a very small price of 1,20 - 1,50 DM.

The remake Panzerschiff shown by Justin is made in the same way and by the only remaining producer after 1960, Carl Neiss in Krefeld, as all tallies in Germany between 1960 and approx. 1990.

Regards,

Markus

[John R.]

Markus,

I have combined a few threads and would like to get your opinion Scharnhorst tally at the top, posts 1-5.

We have some differing opinions on this one as you can see.

Like to have your input on it.

John

[CSForrester]

Kriegsmarine Tallies--Part 2

What I see in the obverse and reverse pictures is an original cap ribbon of the Kriegsmarine between 1937 and September 1939. This style of weaving with the fine seam or shadow around the letters is typical was lost in 1956 after changes in weaving technology in Germany.

The yellow letters are woven from artificial silk (some name it "Bauwolle" the official term in the Kriegsmarine was "Kunstseide").

These tallies delivered to the Kriegsmarine before WW2 have an other significant point: they are elastic in length. If you take a full length ribbon with 116-120 cm (more is impossible with Kunstseide) you can expand it minimum 2c in length, but be carefull.

If you try to expand any tally produced after 1956 in Germany, Bundesmarine or remakes of Kriegsmarine, you will fail. The new material was not elastic.

If these tallies were stored carefully - indeed, they look brand new. That was also a reason to change from metal to Kunstseide.

Regards,

Markus

[John R.]

If these tallies were stored carefully - indeed, they look brand new. That was also a reason to change from metal to Kunstseide. Markus

Just to be clear Markus, the "issue" tallies of the KM were originally metal wire and then to economize, to kunstseide. In other words, after the change, the issue tallies were kunstseide and the metal style could only be obtained through private purchase whereas before, the metal wire tallies were issued.

I understand that all along the private purchase metal wire tallies were slightly different in metal content than the issue tallies.

John

[Jody]

Scharnhorst Tally

Hello,
Here is a Scharnhorst tally which believe is a fake. This is the type that was sold aboard the HMS Belfast. One end of the tally is shorter than the other end.

Regards,
Jody

[Jody]

Scharnhorst Tally

Another view:

[Jody]

Scharnhorst Tally

Reverse view:

[Jody]

Scharnhorst Tally

Short end of tally:

[JustinG]

Jody,
Knowing where you got that tally shows that indeed this probably is not real. However, as John Robinson showed earlier that this tally was one of the best reproductions ever made. The reverse of the tally looks almost identical to the stitching of a period piece.

Thanks for sharing. Interesting that these were cut differently instead of both being uniform (equal) in length as they would have been. A good flag to help people determine originality and time period.
Thanks Jody,

JustinG

[John R.]

Jody,

I am working on some side by sides now.

However, the ribbon material, the cut of the end of the tally and the uneven lengths do indeed look like the HMS Belfast fake pictured in post 10.

John

[John R.]

OK,

Jody's tally on the top in both images, Peter's (PantherV's) is on the bottom.

John

[John R.]

Reverse

[John R.]

Jody,

I do not think we need other images based on these comparisons, the tally lengths, and overall appearance of both tallies.

It shows how dangerous your tally is compared to the other tally if, and it is a big IF, the tally was cut down to the name only.

You could still tell by the ribbon material and stiffness I think, however, it would be hard for most to tell on an ebay auction.

For nothing else, your tally is worth keeping as it is such a good copy.

John

[John R.]

It might be helpful if Peter could provide another scan of the reverse to match Jody's scan in quality and clarity.

John

[behblc]

Comparing the reproduction one shown by Jody to an original tally the lettering in the reproduction is more squat in nature and not as enlongated.