SS Panzer printed TRAPS
Hello again
Are those considered good yet?
Kevin
Hello again
Are those considered good yet?
Kevin
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Late 80s? I dont think So!
End of the Cold War[edit]
Beginning at the Cold War's conclusion, in late 1989, popular civil and political public discontent forced the Communist governments of the Warsaw Treaty countries from power – independent national politics made feasible with the perestroika- and glasnost-induced institutional collapse of Communist government in the USSR.[35] Eventually, the populaces of Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Albania, East Germany, Poland, Romania, and Bulgaria deposed their Communist governments in the period from 1989–91.
On 25 February 1991, the Warsaw Pact was declared disbanded at a meeting of defense and foreign ministers from Pact countries meeting in Hungary.[36] On 1 July 1991, in Prague, the Czechoslovak President Václav Havel formally ended the 1955 Warsaw Treaty Organization of Friendship, Cooperation, and Mutual Assistance and so disestablished the Warsaw Treaty after 36 years of military alliance with the USSR.[37] The treaty was de facto disbanded in December 1989 during the violent revolution in Romania that toppled the communist government there. The USSR disestablished itself in December 1991.Comment
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Kevin,Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post
Sorry I am not sure if your asking me how the date came to be (late 1980's)?
If so...........its based on the recollection of three independent dealers, and six collectors whom I personally know that attended the MAXX show during that time frame. No specific year was given. Depending on whom I inquired with the date ranged from 1988-1989 ish.. Of the persons I asked 85% purchased more than one helmet from the seller for parts.
Each person was certain that it was during this time period when they made their "first US Military Show debut".
Not sure if this address your question. Let me know.
Follow up: I just saw your other post. One important element that I keep seeing come up regarding the "exportation" of these helmets.
It has not been stated that the helmets were exported by the Czechoslovakian government in the late 1980's. I would assume based on how they were sold that the retired Army vet from the MAXX was the person who arranged to have them sent to the US as a private deal (most likely). The helmets were still in their boxes with string, newspaper, and hay.
I would seriously doubt that it was an official government operation so to speak.
No different than today's dealers scouring the countryside, warehouses, and government auctions who do large bulk deals of old stock in other countries arranging the exportation of the material to where ever they deem needed for retail.
Take the political climate out of the equation, and insert a savvy guy who saw money making potential.Last edited by Mr. Hollywood; 12-31-2014, 06:18 PM.Comment
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Cold war
Mr Hollywood
What Im getting at is there time frame is inaccurate. We had no free trade till the 90s. Late 80s was still active enemy. Think about it. How are you gonna smuggle truck loads of military equipment out of a Communist County? Youd be shot!
Kevin
PS On a serious note I do need A new garbage can!Comment
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I got you!
Mr Hollywood
So some Ollie North type infiltrated a Communist County and a Military Storage Facility and liberated truckloads of helmets then Smuggled them Into US in his Whole baggage!
Love it! Ive seen the light! Lets call it "Helmets For Peanuts" as they were sold real cheap back then!
KevinComment
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Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post
I see your point.....but there is no need to dispute respected individuals who independently were able to verify these dates. They were physically standing there and bought the helmets....LOL! They have no reason to make up dates. Just to name a few....... Bill Shea, Bob Gross, Ron Kwan were all there and agree on late 1980's (independently).
My first major military show was in Pomona 1990. These tan helmets were already on dozens of tables retailing between $150- 200 US. I personally bought an M42 version, which I sold in 1996. Even at that time the helmets were being sold as post war. That was what 25 years ago. I bought a 2nd of these helmets in 1991 at a local Gun Show in Ventura California.....I want to say M40.........again sold as post war. I sold that one in the same year 1996.
I see what your saying about communist governments and all that, but it really has little to do with the helmets appearing at the MAXX show in the late 1980's or the Pomona show in 1990. Regardless of politics.....they were at the booths for sale as post war. Thats all I can say about that (Gump).
That trash can was BOSS wasn't it! LOL!
Last edited by Mr. Hollywood; 12-31-2014, 06:37 PM.Comment
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Im Serious!
Dude!
I need a new can! I love the late war color!
KevinComment
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Our city cans are reed green......
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Please PLEASE stay on topic guys! This thread is already getting way too long with wasted band space and in-fights! That's been controlled now after some emails and PM's between some of the members participating here! Hatchets buried!Originally posted by BROBS View PostOur city cans are reed green......
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Lets keep it educational. On that note;
out of curiosity I asked my Czech expert contact about his opinion on the over-paint German helmet with Red White Blue roundel that Kangaroo owns ( even though it is an entirely different helmet than the discussion one, it could have been a clue...)
he stated:
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The roundel example?
Who knows?
Could have been uprising, partisan, postwar used and just fake painted
Czech army didn't really use the roundels!!!
Either way it is an entirely different helmet than the ones that are considered mystery helmets....
SP
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Just an FYI...I think its a German helmet that had a resistance fighter "commemorative" roundel decal postwar added for post war commemorative uprising events ...Actually I now think its a stencil paint job... Anyway later tan overpainted...(RAL???)
like that dealer offer black civilian fire helmet with similar, but hand-painted roundel (I guess that would be the "period" norm for the barricade fighers in 1945)
What is your theory Kangaroo? (the owner)Last edited by NickG; 12-31-2014, 07:16 PM.Comment
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Sorry
Hello
just tryn to add some levity I consider us all brothers in our collecting. Hate to see the fightn.
KevinComment
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Good point,Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post
There was a rumor about having to smuggle the "Pink Smocks" out of the former Eastern Bloc inside Melons to get across the border.
Smuggling, bribery and corruption was the name of the game.
And there was no way you put "original WW2 German helmet" down on any paper work. The officials would have be down on you like ton of bricks. Being seen to be a fascist was not a good thing for ones health. No, instead you put "ex-CZ surplus military helmet refurbished and of little value".
Same thing happens today. I wonder how many top of the line 101% WW2 German helmets worth good money are moved around the world described as "old military surplus of no real value" to avoid tax or duty
And thus a false story of post war rebuild and export to Egypt is born,
ChrisComment
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Do you mean these Kevin ?Originally posted by kevinpre45 View Post
If so, the answer is "no". They are in the same boat as what is going on here. Have a read;
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...t=printed+trap
However, since the sleeve eagle is now confirmed 101% pre-May 1945. The ice of those who say bad/ fake/ reproduction has got thinner,
ChrisComment
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Good point and I touched on that earlier in this thread...lack of German description on the export paperwork...these were no doubt exported as Czech helmets...to keep the value low or like I claimed they were war left overs that were assigned to the CZ military inventories ( as early as in 1946 we know now based on the property stamp...).so technically CZ helmets ...so CZ surplus is not even a lie...and a CZ bureaucrat was told to get rid of these obsolete CZ helmets, if it was done and declared legally...Originally posted by 90th Light View PostGood point,
There was a rumor about having to smuggle the "Pink Smocks" out of the former Eastern Bloc inside Melons to get across the border.
Smuggling, bribery and corruption was the name of the game.
And there was no way you put "original WW2 German helmet" down on any paper work. The officials would have be down on you like ton of bricks. Being seen to be a fascist was not a good thing for ones health. No, instead you put "ex-CZ surplus military helmet refurbished and of little value".
Same thing happens today. I wonder how many top of the line 101% WW2 German helmets worth good money are moved around the world described as "old military surplus of no real value" to avoid tax or duty
And thus a false story of post war rebuild and export to Egypt is born,
ChrisLast edited by NickG; 12-31-2014, 11:15 PM.Comment
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Since export was brought up let me repeat an excerpt from an earlier post from Chris which covers CZ exports in 1948. As you can read their pretty much only customer was Israel...prior to 1948 when Israel did not even exist yet they probably had no export activity to speak of..so for which export customer would these lids have been refurbished you may wonder?(in 1946) and cancelled....Originally posted by 90th Light View Post
Helmets were exported in the 1950s ...the USSR pattern helmets made in CZ (to Egypt ) which probably made things a little bit murky...wrong conclusions drawn...
Just some more food for thought...Comment
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As I said to Terry , it isn't the same as his 2 helmets and the very first 2 posted in this thread but IMHO is from the lots coming from the very same origin .. and matches some others you showed to prove your SS theory , with the typical more "glossy" and almost pea green color . This greenish hue once again is also constant even on the lighter brand new helmets like the first posted but has little in common with the different shades of tan paints applied on camo helmets and camo equipment.Originally posted by NickG View Post
You even posted the RAL color and a helmet (again post 141), but also after post 286...290... 293 ..373 etc....no problem with them all even if there are slight differences , only this one isn't the same
So either you split in 2 different threads , or you go on like this
IMHO leave it like this to explain the whole thing .
Another point , if your "expert" can consider it's a fake like he also presumed , then his whole opinion IMHO can't be considerate as valid , sorry to say .
ONCE AGAIN and for the last time , IMHO it's a crazy assumption to think it could be a fake and at the same time say :"anyway later tan overpainted ...RAL ??? !!! No sens , a german helmet with a fake emblem recalled at one time and reissue with a DEPOT paint work , serious ?
Add to this it has been reissue the same way as a few others posted , on the rim untill the liner which is also paint , like Jim's one bought in 92 or in post 431 (BTW notice the chinstraps also are painted , now look at the rings of the chin fasteners on Radovan's exemple
) and shows normal wear and stack pile traces as you can expect for them (post 373 etc..) and you would understand my point of view .
I've never seen a fake with this paint and consistant wear in my life or most post war reissue helmets issued for the different countries are fake because they can show the same !!!!!
The crazy thing in this thread is every time a tangible element is shown , and there are very few so far, there is someone to say fake , different , not the same paint , there are comparison between things that have nothing in common (this helmet and the black one for the reasons told way before...) or other falses affirmations .
for info , I also looked fast at some barricades pics and so far have seen painted Czech national colors but in a flag shape , may be rounded also were used and why I asked a few posts ago ....http://www.geocities.ws/cs_helmets/period_photos.html
BTW Great pics Chris I must say before , to avoid any missunderstanding , I also own(ed ) unknow or odd things , among other a pretty unique and weird SS M42 I still have ( no Rob, not a lamp 
) and a Leibermeister camo tunic I kept a long time against a lot of collectors opinions ..years before a pic emerged . I also have off SS cap from Statni , poutches from the Russian batch since the beginning and like the VG/mint condition stuff so no problem to see minty helmets
So I don't care about Egyptian theory and considering all that has already been said , I would agree with Terry about the lack of logic for them being reissued ONLY for surplus resale stocks ...this doesn't mean they weren't reissue for another use just before this option , war time ...or just post war , don't forget the putsch in 48 ...just some thoughts again
I also would hear Radovan opinion
Happy New Year everybody
Last edited by francis006; 01-01-2015, 05:24 AM.Comment
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