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    #46
    Originally posted by Doug/MWI View Post
    U have to figure that any SS helmet is always in question
    Only for people who have no idea what they're looking at.

    Comment

      #47
      Originally posted by Dan P View Post
      Only for people who have no idea what they're looking at.
      disagree, the fakes are really better and better,some can be passed as good at shows, but then when better under different lights and higher loops to magnify the decals they turn out to be false. I think Doug (SSTk) even mentioned that in one thread about the newest generation of decals at the SOS. looked good but when he got back to his hotel room and further examined it, it was not. And its not just with helmets or decals, i have heard and read from mnay top notch dealers, that they bought something as good and are considered "experts" in the filed of items they are buying and foudn out later that it was not, Not trying to argue, just stating the facts here, nothing wrong with Zam asking and poiniting out his concerns, none of us know if he wasa serious buyer for the helmet and just wanted to question it to sleep better knowing it was the real deal. Interesting thread going here.

      Comment

        #48
        Originally posted by Doug/MWI View Post
        disagree, the fakes are really better and better,some can be passed as good at shows, but then when better under different lights and higher loops to magnify the decals they turn out to be false. I think Doug (SSTk) even mentioned that in one thread about the newest generation of decals at the SOS. looked good but when he got back to his hotel room and further examined it, it was not.
        To clarify the SS helmet in question was not mine and I knew it was fake AT the show to be bad, the dealer allowed me to prove it by magnifying it.

        To the untrained eye it was a good one and without the help of a good loupe it would be passed off as good, to the naked eye.

        PS I dropped the SSTk moniker....Just plain old DougB now.

        Comment

          #49
          Ahh Doug you never be plain old Doug to me!!!

          Comment

            #50
            Originally posted by Adam S. View Post
            I think that Zam's critical thinking and attention to detail should not be frowned upon here. While his worries were disproved this is still a good example of how to examine details very critically.
            Very true.

            Comment

              #51
              Originally posted by DougB View Post
              To clarify the SS helmet in question was not mine and I knew it was fake AT the show to be bad, the dealer allowed me to prove it by magnifying it.

              To the untrained eye it was a good one and without the help of a good loupe it would be passed off as good, to the naked eye.

              PS I dropped the SSTk moniker....Just plain old DougB now.
              my mistake Doug, i remembered the thread and seeing it, i knew it was not your helmet, just that you took it back to the room. I doknow however that there are certain items that can be mistaken as good, and later turned otu to be bad, that was basically my point of the posting. nothing meant negative towards you or your knowledge at all. I know your the man for SS decals.

              Comment

                #52
                Originally posted by Bortie View Post
                I think it's really sad that a top shelf helmet like this NS SS owned by one of the most prestine helmet collectors is questioned by someone who seems to be a SS helmet noob.

                Don't get me wrong, I am for open discussion but in this case, this thread was not necessary IMO. A simple pm would have solved the airbrush scenario.

                This thread will put a negative atmosphere on the sale of this helmet.

                Just my thoughts.

                Peter B.
                Hi Pete,

                I concur with Brian, someone that has funds like that looking for an NS SS helmet knows exactly what he's buying. This thread wont hurt the value in any way. This helmet is backed by highly experienced collectors and the entire SS community. The ADM shots provided speak for themselves!

                Regards
                Samir
                Last edited by Kroenen; 02-28-2012, 07:14 PM.

                Comment

                  #53
                  Originally posted by Doug/MWI View Post
                  my mistake Doug, i remembered the thread and seeing it, i knew it was not your helmet, just that you took it back to the room. I doknow however that there are certain items that can be mistaken as good, and later turned otu to be bad, that was basically my point of the posting. nothing meant negative towards you or your knowledge at all. I know your the man for SS decals.
                  Hi Doug, no problem I know what you meant

                  There are many readers of forums who do not however.... so I was offering up the correct context as it were.

                  Extreme caution should be taken with SS decals and we are always learning.

                  Comment

                    #54
                    Originally posted by Doug/MWI View Post
                    disagree, the fakes are really better and better,some can be passed as good at shows, but then when better under different lights and higher loops to magnify the decals they turn out to be false. I think Doug (SSTk) even mentioned that in one thread about the newest generation of decals at the SOS. looked good but when he got back to his hotel room and further examined it, it was not. And its not just with helmets or decals, i have heard and read from mnay top notch dealers, that they bought something as good and are considered "experts" in the filed of items they are buying and foudn out later that it was not, Not trying to argue, just stating the facts here, nothing wrong with Zam asking and poiniting out his concerns, none of us know if he wasa serious buyer for the helmet and just wanted to question it to sleep better knowing it was the real deal. Interesting thread going here.
                    Spot on, excellent, post #47! Zams premise is well founded but only scrapes the surface because of what can be rendered by a competent airbrush guy with accurate frisket stencils, pigments, and aging techniques....Ka-Ching!
                    Nicks lid?--'original' in my opinion. Airbrushed fakes and perfect decal fakes are here already, most won't get detected by 'whatever' means used....including USB. Why not? Because they're that good!
                    Only my cynical 2 cents, you gents carry on though....I love reading everyones take on the subject.

                    Robert

                    Comment

                      #55
                      Originally posted by RGD51 View Post
                      Spot on, excellent, post #47! Zams premise is well founded but only scrapes the surface because of what can be rendered by a competent airbrush guy with accurate frisket stencils, pigments, and aging techniques....Ka-Ching!
                      Nicks lid?--'original' in my opinion. Airbrushed fakes and perfect decal fakes are here already, most won't get detected by 'whatever' means used....including USB. Why not? Because they're that good!


                      Robert
                      Robert I disagree. I exposed a very good airbrushed fake and a razor blade painted fake at last years SOS, this year a silkscreened fake, actually 2 of them by using USB at 200x. Your not going to tell me that at 200x magnification an airbrush stencil wont break down for what it is. Period printing is roller press or flatpress. Not airbrushing with frisket stencils. The two look quite different. I have some experience with print techniques in my former life as a graphic and font designer and commercial artist in the pre-computer days. A good handle on modern print techniques and microprinting as well. So I know what I am looking at and looking for.

                      To airbrush the perfect fake you need to have a stencil accurate enough to show the fingerprints of correct SS decals at 200x. What are the fingerprints you ask? Well, not sure if the fakers have looked at a couple hundred correct SS decals at that level of magnification to know . You cannot fake the natural aging of decades of oxidization to copper in the metallic pulver either or the correct construction of the varieties of makers that shows up at 200x magnification either.

                      Its what they do not know that hurts them.

                      Would love to see examples of the perfect fakes your referring to however and see them under USB. They inevitably get something wrong that I have seen so far.

                      Comment

                        #56
                        Doug, I know you like your USB, keep us updated with late breaking results. Some of us will rely on experience and a loupe....maybe.

                        Robert

                        Comment

                          #57
                          Experience and a 20x loupe are invaluable Robert and really are all that is needed. The USB just breaks them down further where the fakes cant hide.

                          But of course the perfect fake is no match for anything or anyone so why bother trying right? Lets just burn it all and be done with it.....maybe

                          Comment

                            #58
                            Originally posted by DougB View Post
                            To clarify the SS helmet in question was not mine and I knew it was fake AT the show to be bad, the dealer allowed me to prove it by magnifying it.

                            To the untrained eye it was a good one and without the help of a good loupe it would be passed off as good, to the naked eye.

                            PS I dropped the SSTk moniker....Just plain old DougB now.
                            Now I have learned something from this thread. Jacques

                            Comment

                              #59
                              OK, one more posting here from me, first, i am not a SS helmet collector, i collect equipment, uniforms, and have also a few helmets, and i think i am no newbie since i collect since nearly 20 years! I never said that i have a big knowledge about SS Decals or SS helmets, but i have some knowledge on spraying and airbrushing as i am also interested in oldtimer cars!
                              I recived also some pm`s, as my english is not so good i hope it is OK to copy the text:
                              To me the photo demonstrates the classic effect when you have a tape mask and you have overspray.
                              Thats exactly what i meant!
                              I had a lot of helmets over the last 2 decades in my hands and i never saw black spray dots that came from the factory paint!
                              So, if some of you need to to call me "Sherlock" or "paranoid", OK, that shows the personality of these members, but i see what i see, and there are little black dots all over the helmet, and if you look at the third pic on page 1 you will clearly see the border where the tape was!

                              so long...

                              Comment

                                #60
                                Originally posted by ZAM View Post
                                So, if some of you need to to call me "Sherlock" or "paranoid", OK, that shows the personality of these members, but i see what i see, and there are little black dots all over the helmet, and if you look at the third pic on page 1 you will clearly see the border where the tape was!

                                so long...
                                Hi Zam,

                                I apologize for that comment, I never meant to offend you, but the fact of the matter this is a genuine SS helmet from top to bottom.

                                The black dots you see could be overspray from something else being sprayed and the helmet happened to be in the same room or area. The scuff marks are clear as day. If the decals were touched up with an airbrush like you say, then it was strong enough to tear the decal and you know that's not possible.

                                regards
                                Samir

                                Comment

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