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**J Melvin** · 09-01-2003, 08:21 AM

The guy that redid that one is one of the best out there in the US. There are things that will give his helmets away once you see them and put them beside an original. But, if you don't know the subtle differences, you can walk into a minefield.

Never, I repeat never, buy a helmet named to Setzler.

**MartyC** · 09-01-2003, 09:16 AM

helmet

Eric does excellent work restoring helmets that would fool many people, but he always sells them as Reproductions. It is the guys that buy from him and then try to to resell these as originals that we have to watch out for. Otherwise, his helmets are great for reenactors who are his primary clientel.

**Ty Smith** · 09-01-2003, 09:30 AM

there are some specific things about that helmet that I don't like and would prevent me from buying it as an original. It does look like great work though. I wish he would mark them as reproductions, like a stamp in the metal.

Marty like your avatar, would like to see a close up of that. I collect photos too and have a few like this with the tower.

**Perry Floyd** · 09-01-2003, 10:05 AM

Why does a reenactor need a 60 year old looking helmet?

**Jan B** · 09-01-2003, 10:06 AM

It is the guys that buy from him and then try to to resell these as originals that we have to watch out for.

Marty, now that is indeed the problem, for which these ' artists' are responsible too in a certain way IMO .
There was already a serious discussion about this (http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=painter) .

I know that they sell them as repro's...but what after that?

I don't understand why re-enactors like the ' 60 year old ' look on their helmets, why should there be artificially aging inside ( dust build-up) the helmet just for re-enacting? Sorry, but that I don't understand! He even named this one...

This guy indeed did a great job, and selling them as repro's is to say at least very normal to me ( not humble or whatever). 'Fakers' on the other hand sell them as originals, is that the difference between him and a faker?...at the end it's the collector who gets burned,no?

Cheers
Jan

**Jan B** · 09-01-2003, 10:07 AM

Perry was quicker then me...I was searching the old thread

**Gene** · 09-01-2003, 10:08 AM

Originally posted by Perry Floyd

Why does a reenactor need a 60 year old looking helmet?

Or RB#'s, maker marks, etc. . . . .

**Derek O.** · 09-01-2003, 10:35 AM

Mr. Grigsby is an honest and honerable man, I have met him in person and bought liners from him. He does the repainting, camo, and chickenwire for reenactors and sells them as reproductions. He has no intention of trying to sell his things as real. As far as the weathering and aging goes I'm not sure if he does that or if the buyers do it. But what I do know is that the reenactors seem to always like things that are already broken-in/aged etc. to give their impressions more character, so that can help explain the aging, maybe. For instance, if you watch Band of Brothers or SPR you see all of the men are weathered etc. because they are in war and the reenactors always try to replicate this look with salt-water, acid baths, charcoal etc. for presentation sakes.

**Jan B** · 09-01-2003, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Derek O.

Mr. Grigsby is an honest and honerable man, I have met him in person and bought liners from him. He does the repainting, camo, and chickenwire for reenactors and sells them as reproductions. He has no intention of trying to sell his things as real. As far as the weathering and aging goes I'm not sure if he does that or if the buyers do it. But what I do know is that the reenactors seem to always like things that are already broken-in/aged etc. to give their impressions more character, so that can help explain the aging, maybe. For instance, if you watch Band of Brothers or SPR you see all of the men are weathered etc. because they are in war and the reenactors always try to replicate this look with salt-water, acid baths, charcoal etc. for presentation sakes.

Hi Derek

I fully believe that Mr. Grigsby is an honest man..but no matter how good or bad he's doing his job, at the end it's the honest collector who got stucked with it.
IMO these guys just don't make it easier for us.
Besides the almost perfect fakes that we have today, I can miss artistic things like this, no matter with what intentions they are doing their 'job'. Again, at the end...

That's just my opinion off course

Cheers
Jan

**Perry Floyd** · 09-01-2003, 10:48 AM

I remember when the Saving Private Ryan stuff came out for sell, it wasn't aged like that. Things were done to make them look dirty, not antiqued..

I mean the dope grower can make the same argument, "I just grow it, it's not my problem where it ends up".

**MartyC** · 09-01-2003, 10:59 AM

helmet

I understand the concern and I agree that it would be better to mark redone helmets as such to not fool anyone. I am a collector first and a reenactor second. I see both sides of this issue. I started reenacting in 1975 and back then all of the head gear (including helmets), uniforms etc. were original items that were being tore up in the reenactments. We had a real problem with guys tearing up original tunics etc.(I tore an original pair of M36 pants on a barbed wire fence during a "battle"). So it is in a way a good thing that copies are being made for reenactors. The issue IMO is the intent of the seller. If they are taking a redone helmet and selling it as "original" then they are commiting fraud and should be sent to jail.

As to why a reenactor needs a 60 year old helmet, they don't, but they want one that looks like a period helmet. If you look at some of the repainted helmets produced by the reenactment suppliers, they look like JUNK!!. Most reenactors strive to provide the best impression possible and the helmet really defines the appearance of a "soldat". I know the helmets we are discussing are painted and treated to capture the paint and tone of an original. The toning is the problem. Artificial aging on the exterior attempts to capture that unique tone of a stahelm. Now the interior is a different matter. It is not necessary to age the liner, etc although adding a gothic name in white is done by many. The main point I still believe is the intent of the seller and yes I do wish they would mark copies as copies at least on the inside.
I was asked about my avatar and it is also copy "Marty in Paris"

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Marty in Paris.jpg (31.0 KB, 182 views)

**Derek O.** · 09-01-2003, 11:02 AM

OK, I can agree with you guys. Weathering, and getting things dirty is one thing, but making age patina, false dust build-up, false rust etc. is crossing the line. Again, Mr. Grigsby sells to reenactors who want near perfect historical representations of an original piece and to collectors that need a "filler" item in their collection like me. Restoring is his hobby and he loves doing it and making you pleased with it, this is what he does and we should respect him as long as he is always honest as he has always been in the past.

**Jan B** · 09-01-2003, 11:15 AM

...but making age patina, false dust build-up, false rust etc. is crossing the line....

So Mr Grigsby is crossing the line too, Derek? The helmet has all the characteristics you're mentionned

I do respect everyone, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with their work.

**Ty Smith** · 09-01-2003, 11:15 AM

All the Saving Private Ryan stuff was permanently marked "SPR"
just for this purpose. Sure would be nice if he would do the same for his artwork.

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