M 35 DD camouglages (semirelic)

[mr slug]

Maybe you should ask for close up pics of the liner. Liner looks original from pics provided, but I have my concerns that it belongs to this helmet originally. It still has the stitching, which I believe most ground dug helmets don't have anymore.
Just my opinion.

That is true, I have about 40 ground dug liners, none have the stitching that joins the leather at the back, some have the stitching that attaches the felt band. Also very few have complete suspension springs. They suffer more from being buried then the other componants............That is why I said I tended towards original liner, but not original to this shell. J.L. has extensive experience with GD items, I believe he feels the same. However, GD items vary greatly given the type of soil water content temperature and a whole host of factors.

Regards Mr Slug. (again, personal opinion and 'I don't have a dog in this fight')

[Ostfries]

liner,

I love the shell - but also do not like the liner at all.

Possibly replaced and the leather looks very dry but further nothing wrong with the liner, also typical D rings for an M35 helmet liner.

[Ben]

Given the condition of the helmet itself it could very well be the original liner to this helmet. It looks though that it has been extracted and cleaned before being put back in again. Liners from ground dug do not have to turn black at all, although a lot do, they can be as nice as they were made yesterday it all depends on the soil conditions in which they were found.

[marvolo59]

Thank you; I think that the place of finding (Bunker), preserved the leather conditions.
If helmet was "bodefound"(under ground), his conditions would be different.
Mario

[Ostfries]

cleaned liner?.

Given the condition of the helmet itself it could very well be the original liner to this helmet. It looks though that it has been extracted and cleaned before being put back in again. Liners from ground dug do not have to turn balck at all, although a lot do, they can be as nice as they were made yesterday it all depends on the soil conditions in which they were found.

Exactly Ben, I also kept that possibility open, cleaned and then put back in again, that could be an explanation why the liner is bent in some in some places to fit back in the shell again, when taken the time it could be done a lot nicer.

[Jean-Loup]

"Given the condition of the helmet itself it could very well be the original liner to this helmet. It looks though that it has been extracted and cleaned before being put back in again. Liners from ground dug do not have to turn black at all, although a lot do, they can be as nice as they were made yesterday it all depends on the soil conditions in which they were found."

The reason I don't think the leather is ground dug is because the stiching is still present, and there is no shrinkage whatsoever. I have never seen a ground dug helmet that still had stiching, but there is a first time for everyting.
I have seen helmets better preserved then this one, but the stiching was gone. Since the liner had clearly been messed with, and since the liner is often the weak point of these ground dug helmets, the most probable scenario for me is that the liner was replaced.

JL

[Ben]

JL,

the liner may have been restored so the stitching might have very well been replaced too like so often is done with ground dug FJ liners. I'm not saying this liner IS the liner to this helmet but that it might very well be. Also, I didn't think that this helmet was an actual ground dug piece.
Partial stitching can be found sometimes but not very often. Schrinkage can actually be kept to a minimum when a liner is kept wet during its restoration and left to dry out slowly on a god fitting form, like a glass display head.

[Jean-Loup]

Yes, you are correct Ben, I hadnt thought that the liner may have been restiched. I do however think this helmet is actualy ground dug because of the part circled below, amongst other reasons.
I think to answere the question of wether the liner is ground dug or not, the stiching should be examined more closely, and the owner should tell us if the leather is hardened or not.