Question about the Carabinieri "Lucerna" cap

[Ironcrown]

I am thinking about buying a Carabinieri "Lucerna" to complete one of my uniforms. This kind of cap was in use for decades nearly without changes.
Now my question: is there any chanche to recognize a prewar Lucerna from a postwar one? Of course the most recent ones will have some sinthetic parts, but had the early postwar caps some details that distinguished them from the '20s-'30s caps?

[comune1aclasse]

Hello Ironcrown,

I do not know if I can really help you. I own two hats of this kind. Both are post war. One is a very modern piece as issued nowadays...the other is an older one (1960s).
Though they look quite the same they do have slight differences indeed.
I made some pictures.....they will explain more than a 1000 words.
The most relevant differensce is in my opinion the height of the dome....
Hope this can help you and sorry I can't tell more

Alex

[Ironcrown]

Thanks a lot
This is a good help already!
I think that the big deal at this point is to distinguish a pre 1945 cap from an early postwar.
I'm afraid that these are nearly identical in construction, as is in the case of the GUS (Grande Uniforme Speciale, the Great Special Uniform) in general.

[comune1aclasse]

Hi,

in any case I assume that even the shape of the flaming grenade would help you to determine a pre war from a post war......as you can see on the pictures even the postwar flame of the 1960s has the flame points spread up
The older pre war flames seem to don't have this feature.......


I took two pictures from a book that I have in my library - "Carabinieri 1895-1945 - 50 anni di ricordi" from the chapter referred to the 1920s






And just to put some more.....here is my GUS from the 1960s

[Ironcrown]

Great uniform
The one I have is very similar (brigadiere), early postwar marked but in every details looks like pre 1945

I'm not sure about the fact that we can determine if a cap is pre or post ww2.
I found this flame with my metal detector, and based on the place where I found it, was lost almost for sure before the war...

[comune1aclasse]

Oh!!! this flame has almost the same shape as the one on my 1960s Lucerna.....both have 14 points.

this puzzles me a lot

[Ironcrown]

Yes, and look at this picture now for sale by a friend of mine(thanks for your collaboration, milite) on Ebay.
It's definitely prewar, and the flame is like the one I found in the ground.

Maybe the flames style changed in the '30s?

[comune1aclasse]

This is most interesting!!

Thanks for showing this picture........as a matter of fact the lucerna in the photograph looks exactly like mine of the (I believe) 1960s.....

Too bad theese hats do not have any stamps inside.

At least the Jacket and the trousers I know are postwar because of the stamps ...otherwise it would be difficult to recognize even those pieces!!......well, maybe on my uniform it would have been easier to recognize it as a postwar uniform even if there weren't stamps... due to the fact that the paired grenade badges on the tails of the Jacket are made of plastic (VIPLA).

Anyway. ......back to the hat: I guess that at this point the only certain way to get sure it is a prewar hat, is to hold it in your hands and check the materials of which it is done.
Would love to know if on older hats (I mean 1920s and 30s) the edge band with the zig-zag pattern was made of a finer/thinner silk......

[Ironcrown]

I really don't know, this is exactly one of the details that may help, if any difference exists, and that's not sure!
I own a GUS that is early postwar marked, but has the exactly same make of the uniforms made in the '40s. I believe that in a certain period of time, the same manifactures made the uniforms in the same way, despite the war period and the current form of state (monarchy, republic).
Also, I have alway wonder if the stamps can indicate exactly the year of production of an item. Probably not. The acceptance stamps were impressed in the local military warehouse (in these cases, usually belonging by a Legione Carabinieri) when they arrived from the manufacturers. But had this happened quickly? It's reasonable to think that in some case an item made in a certain moment, remained stocked for a while somewhere before being assigned to to a local military warehouse. How long for? Just some months, or even for some years? Hard to say I think.