Interesting "medical" tunic on auction...

[Hans Kristian]

[QUOTE=NickG;7475191]Uniform posted by member GAMS1 before! Here per the regulations!
I don't know if this is a true Sani panzer (last image) since it has a gun, could be fake to meet the Geneva convention requirement, but there are no red crosses,
so it could be a fighting vehicle with a crew member who happens to be medically trained? (or its the unit Doctor's vehicle, a safe armored ride but still a fair target,
no Geneva protection of course!)

Here is a Assistenzarzt Dr. May from the 16th Pz div in late 1939 - seems he has a standard wrapper with pink waffenfarbe and boards that is difficult to asses. Visor - as it looks to me - with dark (blue) waffenfarbe..

Wrapper very good match to GAMS1´s shown..

[Johnny R]

Ah, so the correct restauration would be with this type of boards..?.(as oberarzt ofc..).

No, reserve officers topped wearing the grey underlay shortly after the War started and used the normal officers insignia for the rest of the War. The only real difference or designation would be in their title e.g. "Oberarzt d.R.".

[Hans Kristian]

No, reserve officers topped wearing the grey underlay shortly after the War started and used the normal officers insignia for the rest of the War. The only real difference or designation would be in their title e.g. "Oberarzt d.R.".

OK, I understand, a little bit confusing, as I have a stabsarzt with reserve-boards from summer 1942, but maybe he just did not change his boards..?..

Do you know when they stopped the use of the grey underlay..?..

[NickG]

Member PanzerElite posted this military ID picture in the soldbuch section a while ago...Note cypher! Most likely blue farbe on the boards (pink on the collar)
It is my understanding that the Gray backed Heer "reserve status" nebenfarbe was pretty much obsolete when the war broke out...full mobilization...no more reserve status...
(unless you're retired I guess ...but than you are really Außer Dienst (a. D.)

[JasonA]

Dear Hans Kristian,

The original tunic seems odd and may just be a funky restoration. Really no way to tell for sure until you had the piece in hand to review. Most likely the piece was restored incorrectly, but you never know.

I understand what you’re saying about the promotion periods, but there was a need to fill slots as the war went on and men were lost. Some men were fast tracked as needed for various, but legitimate, reasons (others, not so legitimate). So I don’t think you can always use what we’d consider reasonable promotion periods at each rank. There are examples of men who shot up in promotions quickly during the war.

Regarding your summer tunic, most likely the boards were never changed out because it wasn’t being worn during the later war years. So, no need. That is the most likely explanation, even though there could have been other reasons.

Best regards,

Jason

[Johnny R]

OK, I understand, a little bit confusing, as I have a stabsarzt with reserve-boards from summer 1942, but maybe he just did not change his boards..?..

Do you know when they stopped the use of the grey underlay..?..

The regulation was October 1939 but I doubt all the boards were removed and I have seen them on later tunics. They also continued to wear them on waffenrocks and dress tunics.

[Hans Kristian]

Dear Hans Kristian,

The original tunic seems odd and may just be a funky restoration. Really no way to tell for sure until you had the piece in hand to review. Most likely the piece was restored incorrectly, but you never know.

I understand what you’re saying about the promotion periods, but there was a need to fill slots as the war went on and men were lost. Some men were fast tracked as needed for various, but legitimate, reasons (others, not so legitimate). So I don’t think you can always use what we’d consider reasonable promotion periods at each rank. There are examples of men who shot up in promotions quickly during the war.

Regarding your summer tunic, most likely the boards were never changed out because it wasn’t being worn during the later war years. So, no need. That is the most likely explanation, even though there could have been other reasons.

Best regards,

Jason

Jason, many thanks for the input - you draw many obvious conclusions. And yes, after the fact that he cannot be found in the list of active officers, and presumably was a reserve-officer makes the speed of promotion more realistic; maybe he joined as a fully trained doctor, maybe already with a specialitY degree, so yes, it would be possible. Then there is "only" the question about waffenfarbe, but that might be explained by fashion..

Regarding the photo I have - see this one here, it is ofcourse the case that the officer kept his tunic for special occasions, here maybe at his own wedding..?..his tunic is the model that was produced between 1936-41 if I am not mistaken, photo from 1942, but he would have needed time to gain the EK1 anyway..

Interesting discussion...thanks for the inputs.

[Mike Swan]

I note a comment early in this thread about the boards being applied to the wrong sides. This occurrence is frequently observed and is simply a tailor's error and not necessarily an indicator of a poor restoration job.

Here's a tunic I own as a case in point.

Mike

[compressore]

I. Abteilung Reiter-Regiment 22 (I./RR22) D

Offizierstellenbesetzung 14.7.1940
Abteilungs-Hilfarzt Unterarzt d.R. Dr. Helmuth Twardy

Based on this, a reserve officer.

Personally I doubt the "quick promotion" and I think its a wrong restored uniform.
In the book "the leaping horseman" , his last position is mentioned as a "Regimentsarzt" which should be a "Stabsarzt" which would be in line with the rank in the jacket and further promotions.

Regards
Christian

[Hans Kristian]

I.

Personally I doubt the "quick promotion" and I think its a wrong restored uniform.

Hi Christian,

I agree completely on this statement, I do believe the promotions are too quick to be realistic..

Hans Kristian

[Johnny R]

I note a comment early in this thread about the boards being applied to the wrong sides. This occurrence is frequently observed and is simply a tailor's error and not necessarily an indicator of a poor restoration job.

Here's a tunic I own as a case in point.

Mike

I disagree this is frequent, as I noted it did occur during the war but more often it is indeed more likely from a post war restoration by people who were not aware there are "sides". Tabs were also sewn on the wrong sides but this also was not very common. I have tunics that are exceptions too but probably 95% of the tunics I have seen and know are originally have the boards "correctly" applied.