early officer coat opinion please

[Lukasz78]

About the date it's hard to say, it could be 1910 or 1911.

[Johnny R]

1910/11 he would have been 18 or 19 so that may not fit well with the medical Doctor or officer idea.

[Lukasz78]

1910/11 he would have been 18 or 19 so that may not fit well with the medical Doctor or officer idea.

Yes You're right but like i said it's very hard to read the date.

[Lukasz78]

It could be 1918 as well. Tommorow i will tray with magnifying glass :-)

[phild]

In my experience the subject of WWI German Officer overcoats is tricky! There are the regulations and then there is what they actually wore. Bavarian "feldgrau" tended much more toward the actual gray side of shade whereas the Prussian color was more greenish gray. This could account for the shade of this coat or it could be a pre-war silver gray made during the wartime.....and that was known to have been common.

Generally with Bavarian Feldgrau overcoats and tunics (the pre war silver-gray OC excepted) the collars were the same material and color as the coat/tunic and not the green facing cloth as seen in Prussia and the other states. This is why I think that the collar may have been re-covered or even replaced.

Regulations called for the officer's during wartime to adopt a single breasted OC, but many if not most wore double breasted pre-war style OCs or had double breast feldgrau coats made. As for the back arrangement, I have seen wartime double breasted OCs with and without the scallops.....so if as you suspect this is a wartime coat it may have been made without the scallops.

[Lukasz78]

1910/11 he would have been 18 or 19 so that may not fit well with the medical Doctor or officer idea.

I was trying to read the date with the magnifying glass, but without the effect.
It could be 1910, 1911 or 1918 or something else.
IMHO in 1910/11 he could become a medical student in some kind of army academy. In 1921 - when he was 29 years old he was a medical director in the hospital - Leitender Arzt - and between 1914–1918 was in army so i think he must studied before, and practicing during the war.

[Johnny R]

He would be listed in the WWI officer book if he were a full Doctor with a commission. My guess is that he may have served as an Unterarzte or if he had 2 semesters of clinical study in medical school he would have been a feldunterarzte and then a feldhilfsarzte.

[Lukasz78]

It's quite possible. You have a stunning knowledge, many thanks for Your help Johnny.

[phild]

A wild guess on my part, but if made in 1910 or 11 could this coat have belonged to his father (or uncle or older brother) if one of these relatives were an officer at that time and then been handed down and modified later?

[Johnny R]

I looked at the name matches for Haug yesterday. There was a Lt. in a Wurttemberg unit (IR 123) killed at Ypres in 1916 and a man who ended the War as a Major who was in a Baden unit (IR 111) and later General staff but no Bavarians that match the coat.

[Lukasz78]

Thanks guys You are a genius. It looks that somebody from his family was a Lt. in a Wurttemberg unit (IR 123) killed at Ypres in 1916.
IR 123rd (5th Württemberg) Grenadiers "King Charles" is from Ulm. Langenau b. Ulm is the city where he was born and lived before he moved to Bad Mergentheim.

[Johnny R]

Right but the WWI era coat was tailored in Munich? The Waffenrock was tailored in Wurt.

See if you can figure out where he went to Medical school etc. I believe there were Army medical academies in both Berlin and Munich.

[Lukasz78]

Right but the WWI era coat was tailored in Munich? The Waffenrock was tailored in Wurt.

See if you can figure out where he went to Medical school etc. I believe there were Army medical academies in both Berlin and Munich.

Ulm is a border city between Bavaria and Wurttemberg, and the waffenrock was tailored in Bad Mergentheim (look at the tailor label) - the place where he work as a doctor.

[Johnny R]

Yes I know that- I lived in Germany for several years. You are trying to tie him to the overcoat and Munich to see if it could be his and if he was enrolled in the Medical Academy there etc. The Waffenrock we already know about.

[Lukasz78]

Yes I know that- I lived in Germany for several years. You are trying to tie him to the overcoat and Munich to see if it could be his and if he was enrolled in the Medical Academy there etc. The Waffenrock we already know about.

Sorry Johnny i'm not so good in english, You are always helping me a lot, but now i don't understand what You mean and where we going with this discussion, but as You saw on the photos this uniform group belong to the one owner, the question was when this coat was made, and as we came to the conclusion, it was made about 1910, and (as Phild mentioned) could belonged to somebody from the Herman's family, probably (thanks to You) to the Lt. IR 123 who was KIA, then the coat was modified to fit to the Wehrmacht standards.
Hermann Haug moved from Ulm (where the visor was made) to the Bad Mergentheim where he lived and worked, and the waffenrock was made in 1936 - it's 26 years later, so i think the best and only connection between the coat and waffenrock is the owner, not the cities. Now we don't know if this coat was his father's or his from the beginning. I would say that the coat (as Phild mentioned) belonged to somebody from family who died in the war, and then was modified to fit to the Wehrmacht standards. So I think it will be impossible or verry, verry hard to found why the coat was made in Munch (capital of cultur and the biggest city in the region) wich is located 150 km (90 miles) from Ulm. Mayby the officer who KIA was lerning there in Military Academy or Hermann, or mayby he went there because was there a good tailor, who was making a nice coats-but who knows.