yellow piped panzer collar tabs.

[OSS]

the kind of piping reminds me on that wrap:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=lago

Agreed, it almost has a checkerboard appearance to the weave.

[derka]

Aside acurate observations about piping already spotted, i still don't understand why a supposed authentic 1st pattern wrap (4 buttonholes only) would have been period modified adding a colar hook and eye system, but without adding the 3 missing lapel's upper buttonholes needed to properly wear this wrap closed.

Initialy, considering the lack of date stamp information and of full wiews avaible, i thought this wrap might have been a 3rd pattern or even a 2nd pattern one.
It might have been period modified to get close to the sharper look of a 1st pattern one, reducing its colar's shape and adding to it a piping, to obtain a kind of "best uniform" for home or rear duty.
Or/and another possible reason, to replace the original pink piping by a yellow one, acording to a change of the unit's branch of his owner.

An optimistic hypothesis, i admit, comparing to a postwar alteration to increase the value of a 2nd or 3rd patern presumed authentic wrap, becoming a rarer 1st pattern one, wich could have been be a possibility too.

But now, with the clarification given about the number of buttonholes, and if the modification was done using what turns to be a fake piping material, i don't see who would be fool enought to alterate an authentic 1st pattern wrap only to get a rarer branch color for its colar piping and unlogicaly adding a colar closure sytem.

Or the wrap's authencity itself , if questionable, could be then an explaination.

Maybe i'm wrong with my focus about the buttonholes point, wich make me missing something else about this interesting case...

derka

[B. N. Singer]

Aside acurate observations... why a supposed authentic 1st pattern wrap (4 buttonholes only) would have been period modified adding a colar hook and eye system...Initialy, considering the lack of date stamp information and of full wiews avaible, i thought this wrap might have been a 3rd pattern...But now, with the clarification given about the number of buttonholes,... and unlogicaly adding a colar closure sytem.

Or the wrap's authencity itself , if questionable, could be then an explaination.

Maybe i'm wrong with my focus about the buttonholes point, wich make me missing something else about this interesting case...

derka

Likely an original 3rd pattern (un-piped factory collar) garment having, perhaps, as part of the "significantly modified/altered” work performed being the “closure” of the three small button holes located on the lapel. A close examination would indicate if this were the case.

B. N. Singer

[derka]

Likely an original 3rd pattern (un-piped factory collar) garment having, perhaps, as part of the "significantly modified/altered” work performed being the “closure” of the three small button holes located on the lapel. A close examination would indicate if this were the case.

B. N. Singer

I didn't think to this smart option, to be checked.
But not finishing the job removing the then not used anymore colar's closure system ?

derka

[B. N. Singer]

I didn't think to this smart option, to be checked.
But not finishing the job removing the then not used anymore colar's closure system ?

derka

Sir, perhaps the number of exterior closure buttons (large/small) need also be counted.

B. N. Singer

[pauke]

wrappers

The other wrapper from the "VG" source looks to be very poorly done as to the application of the piping on both the collar and tabs. Perhaps someone has improved their sewing ability but neither wrapper appears to be an originally piped-collar style. The considerable wear to the lining does not appear consistent with the lack of wear to the piping on the "6" wrapper and all the observations up to now would be well taken to not invest in such a clearly dubious "piped collar" wrapper.

[ccnrecon]

Sir, perhaps the number of exterior closure buttons (large/small) need also be counted.

B. N. Singer

I will see if lapel buttons are present and send word. I have only this poor picture on my phone of the other buttons.

[derka]

I will see if lapel buttons are present and send word. I have only this poor picture on my phone of the other buttons.

Thank you, for the moment, the best wiew is pic in #19, and considering pic in #17, the wrap looks to have only 4 buttonsholes, as you indicated in #54.
I hope you don't mind our questions about this wrap.

derka

[ccnrecon]

Thank you, for the moment, the best wiew is pic in #19, and considering pic in #17, the wrap looks to have only 4 buttonsholes, as you indicated.
I hope you don't mind about our questions about this wrap.

derka

I do not mind. This discussion is a learning experience. As I noted earlier I could likely live with original components. This wrap has been in its present state for 35 years which of course means very little. It did however, come out of Russia. This begs the question. Would the Russians take a original wrap and rework it post war to the extent we see here for a museum or costume company?

[derka]

I do not mind. This discussion is a learning experience. As I noted earlier I could likely live with original components. This wrap has been in its present state for 35 years which of course means very little. It did however, come out of Russia. This begs the question. Would the Russians take a original wrap and rework it post war to the extent we see here for a museum or costume company?

I consider i have not enought knowledge and experience to respond with reliability to your question about russian provinance and russian skill.
Someone like Georges Petersen could certainly give an educating opinion about this point, and probably some members here too.
For what i rode about it, some of ex "russian" wraps who traveled to the West since the fall of the iron curtain in 1989 had missing insignias, mostly recognizable as "nazi" like eagle and tk's, other less or were completly untouched.
It seems that it was mainly considering difficulties to cross border and customs check points.
35 years is almost 10 before this "migration for freedom", and i realy don't know about it.
But we know for sure that original TR uniforms items have already been modified to increase their value on the market.
Is it the case for this wrap ? That's all the interest of our discussion.
I personaly don't think that for their own need in Russia at this time, a museum or a theater would have been able or even interested to do such modifications on a wrap.
But when time came for selllng, it could have been another matter, even 35 years ago, and maybe it could have happen between Russia and you.
The story of this wrap, its rock solid provinance and tracking are important criterias, but we can't evaluate them here, that is one of the limits of this forum.
Nothing can replace close hand examination; we can only here (at best) stick to what we see on pics, try to use together our brains considering our respective experience, and share our points of wiew.

derka