Panzergrenadier stug wrap collar patches info

[afrikasandman]

A tab and board I would love to have! Thank you for posting. Matt

[Mike Davis]

Not a complete wrapper but at least the tab. I hope Mike does not mind me showing his old tab that resides in my collection now.

Of course not. Here is a slightly better view, scanned from an old 35mm print. I had no doubt the tab original, but like OSS, have never seen a wrap mounting tabs like this I believed to be wartime configured.

[OSS]

The wearing of wrappers by Pz. Grenadiers seems to be a late-war occurence; there is photographic evidence of an unusually large number of field grey wrappers in Normandy, not only within Pz. Lehr but 21st Panzer as well. I wonder what waffenfarbe this Felwebel is wearing.

[90th Light]

I find it curious that several of the photos of known Pz. Grenadiers show separate tabs with piping seemingly removed. What does that suggest to you? I take it to mean that because lime green tabs were not available, the piping was removed from red or pink piped tabs (at least in those cases).

Very interesting thread and photos

Not only were lime green examples hard to get at the start, even red was had its hard to get moments. Thats what I think might explain this field made pair, removed from a wrap, closely trimmed and stuck in a photo album,

Chris

[Alex Ciavaglia]

My thought too, shortage of appropriate colar tabs certainly explains the removal of unapropriate piping considering unit's designation, particulary (imo) during at least first half of 1943, when litzen had to replace tk's or "empty" tabs according new regs from january.
I suppose those mixt were common when a man changed of unit, and logicaly even more with rare colors of piping :

derka

Hi Derka,
logical and rational reasoning, i think it as well.
Do you think it's absurd to think that the last series of wrap (the ones with 'simplified' collar patches) were manufactured only with red or pink waffenfarbe to simplify the production? This could be the reason because all other units removed the color braids from the collar. I know there is some photografic evidence where existed other colors but they could be a sort of mid war wrappers with real collar patches...

[derka]

Alex, red and pink colar tabs were by far the huge majority of factory appliation on feldgrau wraps, as those 2 colors "covered" the largest spectra of units using them during the whole conflict.

AFIK, the standart gray litzen factory appliation on feldgrau wraps, like in # 18, same that on Heer 4 pockets feldgrau feldbluse (wool and hbt), didn't start before around mid 1944.
The other option during those last months was appliation of russian braid for piping circa them.

That doesn't exclude of course that some manufacturers produced feldgrau wraps with factory applied piped colar tabs with rarer colors in small number, and this was done untill the end in 1945.

On another side, i believe that some feldgrau wraps were produced in small number without any colar tabs factory applied.
I can't say if it was specific to some manufacturers only.
Some piped colar tabs pairs, with several variations in their color backing, with or without tk or with litzen after january 1943, were produced apart with the seldom used colors.
This practice was very pragmatical; and both wraps and colar tabs pairs were sent to depots and after issued in units, and they could be assembled in function of needs and avaibility at those stages.
This marginal supply method decreased during last stages of conflict.

If you add the use of early prewar feldbluse colar tabs with litzen indicating the waffenfarbe, the eventual change of unit for a same man, and leting aside the case of officer's insignia appliation on standart issue wraps, those possibilities of combinations explain why you can find several different period done configurations of insignias appliation on a feldgrau wrap.

And last, we have to remember that aside those 2 common colors for feldgrau wraps, white, black, gold and lemmon yellow, light and grass green, bordeaux red and copper brown could theoricaly be used too accorfing official regulations...

Just my opinion of course.

[90th Light]

It is interesting that almost all the collar tabs with piping removed shown in the pictures of wraps so far, seem to be sewn on the dark bottle green backing or a darker colored backing.

It would make sense that in the manufacture of early PG wraps, they had not received the PG piped collars tabs or some other colours and simply used the basic tabs on green backing intended for the regular 4 pocket tunics.

Some tabs have probably had their piping removed, others will be standard model collars tabs which never had piping and some may even be field modified like the pair I have shown in post number 19,

Chris

[derka]

It is interesting that almost all the collar tabs with piping removed shown in the pictures of wraps so far, seem to be sewn on the dark bottle green backing or a darker colored backing.

It would make sense that in the manufacture of early PG wraps, they had not received the PG piped collars tabs or some other colours and simply used the basic tabs on green backing intended for the regular 4 pocket tunics.

Some tabs have probably had their piping removed, others will be standard model collars tabs which never had piping and some may even be field modified like the pair I have shown in post number 19,

Chris

Althought not easy to distinguish, basic early tabs with dark green backing and litzen should not be confused with "true" colar tabs specificaly made for wraps (kragenpatten), but with their piping removed.
Those kragenpatten mit doppellitzen (since january 1943), with their piping removed, could have a dark green backing, but feldgrau backing too like here :

[OSS]

Althought not easy to distinguish, basic early tabs with dark green backing and litzen should not be confused with "true" colar tabs specificaly made for wraps (kragenpatten), but with their piping removed.
Those kragenpatten mit doppellitzen (since january 1943), with their piping removed, could have a dark green backing, but feldgrau backing too like here :

Or, as mentioned earlier, no backing at all:

[Mike Davis]

Example of true tab with piping removed courtesy B.N. Singer's collection

[OSS]

Example of true tab with piping removed courtesy B.N. Singer's collection

I think this example is typical of the ones we have seen in photos earlier in the thread. I suspect most if not all field grey wrappers left the factory with red or pink tabs attached and were later altered either by simply removing the piping or replacing the tabs with others. In the case of the late model wrappers, the Russia braid was removed leaving the litzen by itself. In both cases the soldiers waffenfarbe would be displayed by the straps alone.

[Mike Davis]

Yep, here is another (apologies for the blurred image) showing the collar of a gabardine wrap from which the 'Russia braid' soutache material was removed - note the hole through which the ends were tucked.

[Luca Ongaro]

Example of true tab with piping removed courtesy B.N. Singer's collection

Photos of lining, waist tunnel and tapes, cuff, markings, shoulder strap bridles, national emblem application, etc. would be very helpful

[Luca Ongaro]

Example with litzen

[Luca Ongaro]

Example of tab with pionier piping