Dutch converted to Terek Cossack jacket

[Fred Green]

Greetings All,

Here is ,what I beieve to be ,the period reference to the insignia. It comes from the same source that was quoted.

Fred

[paul.j]

tunic

One of the worst attempts ever,you want to keep debating this one?

[sudhafen]

One of the worst attempts ever,you want to keep debating this one?

If you have any arguments yes..



Thanks Fred for your reply. There're indeed inconsistencies. I'm going to discuss these issues with the current owner and see what he has to say.

[NickG]

Impossible to assertain when it was patched like this but it makes for a nice Cossack impression for sure!
As it has no provenance the value is the sum of parts.
As others commented Dutch conversions are often upgraded to something more exciting as the Osttruppen wore these tunics a lot!
If the tunic is in very good condition (and lacks Russian museum stamps) it has probably never seen East front service...so more likely used by a regular Heer soldier. Often preferred as "best dress tunics" because of the quality and shoulderpadding...(in other words a werhmacht closet survivor converted to Cossack)...Who nows?

Mine is well worn, front line usage wear... and has Russian museum stamps so more likely seen combat. Those are the traits I would be comfortable with for Osttruppen garments!

[Gaspare]

wear to board stripes don't match tab stripes,,shield looks new,, rank[?] stripes on arm also look like they don't match anything else..
And, no matter how you want to explain it that collar tab rank system [4 stripes] is just wrong..
With out provenance that's just a Dutch rework reworked,,could be done in 30 min.....

[TrondK]

Here is an interesting photo. It looks like"4" stripes- just wanted to share it. Since we are having an discussion on "3" and "4" stripes on the collartabs.

Yes i know it is a schuma.

[sudhafen]

Here I found another shield with a silver stripe.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...&postcount=250

[sudhafen]

Because earlier photos have been removed, I'll add some new close up photos too.

[Fred Green]

Greetings All,

I still believe that this tunic is just put together. We will never know really when the insignia was put on the tunic. We have to use our best forensic tools and guess alot.

These are the reasons I will not allow myself to believe that this is a period sewn insignia on this tunic:

1. The collar insignia is machine sewn in a professional looking manner and the sleeve insignia looks as though it was hand stitched on by a novice. Whay wasn't it also machine sewn?

2. The collar insignia is an incorrect or non-existant rank as per the period regulations.

3. The wear on the insignia is not consistant with all of the insignia. The boards are newer looking than the tabs. If the tabs were a lower rank than the boards I might understand this. The soldier might have been promoted and not added the extra bar to the tabs.But since the tabs are a higher rank or an incorrect/non-exsistant rank I cannot.

4. The sleeve insignia is not set into the material as the collar tabs are.Both the cossack patch and the unidentified tresse underneath, appear by the photos, to have been put on very much later than the collar tresse and tabs.

5. The 3 different sizes of tresse used on the tunic.

6. Nonstandard tresse bars under the cossack patch with a nonstandard tresse bar on the patch itself.

Johnny R mentioned that this type of converted tunic was not a very desireable tunic until recently. Alot of these were badged up in hopes of selling them. I believe ,by the points above, that this is exactly what has occured here.I would be very, very cautious if considering this uniform as a purchase!

Here are some pages from "UNIFORMS AND INSIGNIA OF THE COSSACKS" by Schuster and Tiede.

Fred

Greetings All,

I have not changed my opinion on this tunic. It is worth the sum of its parts. IMHO this tunic was rebadged after the war to make a very nice Dutch tunic into an exotic Foreign Volunteer piece. The insignia does not match up.

Fred

[Heinrich1945]

Personally I do not believe that it is an post war put together tunic. Original unmeshed Dutch soldiers tunics are worth much, much more than the refurbished tunics which were used mostly by Russian troops.