Dutch converted to Terek Cossack jacket

[sudhafen]

What do you guys think about this one? It smells good, it looks good, and the conversion part looks ok too.. But yeah, too much good


Converted pre-1940 Dutch jacket.


The Terek Cossacks arm shield with rank signs?


What's with all the silver lines? Some Cossack rank?


Inside, Dutch stamp CM (Centraal Magazijn) 193x (probabaly 1938)

[Gaspare]

- well the Dutch conversion is fine in itself.. It is the insignia that needs to be scrutinized..

I've seen rank arm stripes but usually on top of shield. Anything possible with these guys though.

Shoulder boards with the 3 stripes are o.k.,,,But, the collar tabs, which this type was used but a short time, are a mistake [4 stripes?]

Shield is 44 type,,maybe some better photos of it.

[Fred Green]

Greetings All,

I am an insignia collector not a uniform collector. The first thing needed are better photos of the breast eagle, Collar insignia,shoulder boards opened and off the tunic and the the sleeve insignia.

To me the conversion of the tunic looks O.K. The collar insignia appears to be an original application and with the same wear as the tunic. The shoulder board retaining strap has an odd appearance in its construction. The boards look good but don't have the same wear as the tunic. The collar tabs and boards are not of the matching rank.

The sleeve insignia is something totally different. Both the Cossack patch and the lace bars appear to be newly applied. They don't set into the fabric as the collar tabs do. The Cossack patch itself is different in construction from what I have seen before.The silver tresse stripe is an unusual application to me also. I have no idea what the two stripes under the cossack patch are supposed to represent. They are not rank because that is shown in bothe the collar tabs and shoulder boards. If it was a singular tresse stripe applied to the top of the patch it would be a qualification patch. It should be of a gold braid.

Better photos are needed! This is just my opinion!!

Fred

[Gaspare]

Fred, unless I'm mistaken,,there is no rank from that type with 4 stripes.........

[Fred Green]

Greetings All,

You are correct. There were only 3 stripes . You must have read my post before I corrected it. The tabs and shoulder boards do not match.

Fred

[TrondK]

Interesting, but there is a lot of stripes on this tunic.

I have a DON cossack with 2 stripes on the bottom of the sleeves. But no stripe in the shield construction.

Here is a photo of the stripes

[sudhafen]

Thank you very much for you replies! I'll post some closeups later.

[lssah.spain]

I have see this tunic before! (last weekend) I have touch it and for me is OK.

[sudhafen]

Some closeups and macros.

[TrondK]

I like what i see so far. The collartabs looks like they are a little loose - is there a way to see if there is a shadow under?

[jürgen]

i think, the tunic could bring more money if its a untouched dutch EM tunic.

by the way,.... have not seen one for a long time

i dont see any wrong on the tunic. if you had in hands and the stomach feeling is good, take it.

[Johnny R]

The big question and hardest to answer is always when was the insignia applied, unless it is obvious it is hard to tell, it really needs to be seen in hand. For every real one there are probably 50 examples that were built after the War. No one wanted conversion jackets 10+ years ago (most people did not even knew what these were), they were turned into Eastern Volunteer jackets to try and increase value.

[PaulR]

The collar tress looks to be well worn, uniformly. Is it possible that the extra stripe was a mistake?

I can see where one would not count the stripe along the border edge of the tunic as a stripe, but as the NCO edge tressing. The space between the tress on the collar edge and the next stripe seems to be bigger than what is between the other stripes.

[Jos L C]

I can see where one would not count the stripe along the border edge of the tunic as a stripe, but as the NCO edge tressing. The space between the tress on the collar edge and the next stripe seems to be bigger than what is between the other stripes.

I agree, think that there's a border and 3 stripes ..

Jos.

[Fred Green]

Greetings All,

I still believe that this tunic is just put together. We will never know really when the insignia was put on the tunic. We have to use our best forensic tools and guess alot.

These are the reasons I will not allow myself to believe that this is a period sewn insignia on this tunic:

1. The collar insignia is machine sewn in a professional looking manner and the sleeve insignia looks as though it was hand stitched on by a novice. Whay wasn't it also machine sewn?

2. The collar insignia is an incorrect or non-existant rank as per the period regulations.

3. The wear on the insignia is not consistant with all of the insignia. The boards are newer looking than the tabs. If the tabs were a lower rank than the boards I might understand this. The soldier might have been promoted and not added the extra bar to the tabs.But since the tabs are a higher rank or an incorrect/non-exsistant rank I cannot.

4. The sleeve insignia is not set into the material as the collar tabs are.Both the cossack patch and the unidentified tresse underneath, appear by the photos, to have been put on very much later than the collar tresse and tabs.

5. The 3 different sizes of tresse used on the tunic.

6. Nonstandard tresse bars under the cossack patch with a nonstandard tresse bar on the patch itself.

Johnny R mentioned that this type of converted tunic was not a very desireable tunic until recently. Alot of these were badged up in hopes of selling them. I believe ,by the points above, that this is exactly what has occured here.I would be very, very cautious if considering this uniform as a purchase!

Here are some pages from "UNIFORMS AND INSIGNIA OF THE COSSACKS" by Schuster and Tiede.

Fred