Berlin Hoard Skulls - What is the Deal Here?

[Robin Lumsden]

1.........there is absolutely NO evidence that supports a Berlin Hoard of these specific skulls with the exception of the article in possession of the “Sandkastenmann”.

2. ............. a major investment in these skulls would prohibit a good objective analysis of the skulls in question for those concerned.

3. If you are interested in finding out the truth about these skulls..........

1. The newspaper article was posted elsewhere on the 'net ..............not, so far as I am aware, by this sandy character. I am still trying to find it.

2. I don't think anyone ever made a 'major investment' in buying these skulls. They were very cheap when they first appreared. I think I paid a few Euros for mine. I have only one, so I don't think my 'investment' would hinder my objectivity. Hundreds of them were listed in Ebay, from different dealers. I have since seen them on many of the 'big dealer' sites, for much higher prices. They also now appear regularly on SS caps.............obviously having been placed there by the dealers to replace lost badges. IMHO, these were cavalry skulls, seldom used by the SS.

3. I am already quite happy about the 'truth'. I have posted in dozens of threads about these skulls and I do not intend posting the same pix and info again.

This reminds me of the hoard of 1934 SS-Standarte 27 Ausweis documents found in Danzig in the mid-1990s. Many collectors at that time assumed that they must be dubious because they were found in such large numbers. They were perfectly original.

There are many other examples of legitimate hoard finds.

[Brad Posey]

The newspaper article was posted elsewhere on the 'net ..............not, so far as I am aware, by this sandy character. I am still trying to find it.

I am already quite happy about the 'truth'. I have posted in dozens of threads about these skulls and I do not intend posting the same pix and info again.

Quote: “I do not intend posting the same pix and info again”



Ok, fair enough, I will do it myself, as you suggested earlier in this thread: “hit the search button”


This is not personal against anyone who supports the originality of the “Berlin Hoard” skulls, but rather my concern that a fraud has occurred. If this is a fraud it needs to be settled now before it becomes written history and will forever deceive future collectors.


In a quick reply to Robin’s last comments I can only stress that no one here, or anywhere else, can produce a copy or link to that newspaper article that documents the original and true “Berlin Hoard”, except those of us who have personally seen it and all feel is a hoax – including the Berlin Hoard and the Sandbox Man – since they are two …and the same.


Strange that the only proof of this article’s existence is from other skeptical members, like myself, who have personally seen this article displayed on the Sandbox Man’s table at the shows in Europe. If there is another article and another source of the article please let me know. So far none of those that believe in this find can reference the article other than saying that they have heard of an article, but cannot find it or they have never personally seen it.
Equally strange is that the majority of the supporters of these skulls have never heard of the Sandbox Man, nor have they personally seen his table and this newspaper article, yet they all refer to this allusive newspaper article that shows workmen uncovering these skulls – which can ONLY be found on his table at show in Europe.


Those that have actually seen his table and the boxes of “Berlin Hoard” artifacts he has to sell as well as that newspaper article unanimously reject the whole lot, story and the article as fake.


I am working on a very detailed reply to this subject and it will take me a few days to sort out. I will post it here when I am finished.
I am not a detective or court judge, but it seems very clear to me that the “evidence” supporting the real “Berlin Hoard” is all hearsay, the evidence strongly suggests that the Berlin Hoard and the Sandman are the same person or origin of the “Berlin Hoard” and that the “Berlin Hoard” and “Sandman” artifacts are ALL 100% fake.


None of the “supporters” evidence would hold up in a court of law…..It is all based on hearsay stemming from the allusive newspaper article that none of them have personally seen. Also period photos, but I cannot see much from these photos other than: “yes, that type skull was worn pre-1945”.


I will further discuss all of this including a photo analysis of period photographs and the skulls in question. It will take a few days to put together.


If I am wrong I will personally apologize to everyone involved in this discussion who disagrees with what I am trying to point out.



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[Robin Lumsden]

If I am wrong I will personally apologize.

No need to apologise if that happens.

We are all here to learn all we can about these skulls.

I look forward to the results of your research.

I cannot PROVE they are original (I don't think anyone can)...............but I do not think you will be able to prove the contrary either.

Best of luck!

[Brad Posey]

We are all here to learn all we can about these skulls.

I cannot PROVE they are original (I don't think anyone can)

but I do not think you will be able to prove the contrary either.

I am working on it!


Brad

[Johnny R]

[QUOTE=Brad Posey;4395596]I am working on it!

Science in play- I can hear the O-3 retired gears spinning

[Johnny R]

No need to apologise if that happens.

We are all here to learn all we can about these skulls.

I look forward to the results of your research.

I cannot PROVE they are original (I don't think anyone can)...............but I do not think you will be able to prove the contrary either.

Best of luck!

Thanks for posting AGAIN, there was never enough information to address or resolve the questions but IMO the initial attempt at the totenkopf summit was to use us as sherpa to flame threads for holiday bored entertainment without family. The answer, as is normally the case, is only a phone call away.

[David Fettes]

I have seen skulls from the Berlin hoard AND from the sandboxman and I have also seen the newspaper article. IMO Berlin hoard is real and sandboxman is a fraud. Why I hear you ask......well believe it or not, the skulls do not taste the same. Many of the UK members will know that I lost my sense of smell many years ago (an epic story in itself!) and my taste buds became very sensitive as a result. I can "taste" smells and I taste metal insignia, sandboxmans items are artificially aged using some sorts of acids or other chemicals, it is these chemicals that I can detect. Original insignia has a completely different taste to my senses.



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[Robin Lumsden]

Thanks for posting AGAIN, there was never enough information to address or resolve the questions but IMO the initial attempt at the totenkopf summit was to use us as sherpa to flame threads for holiday bored entertainment without family. The answer, as is normally the case, is only a phone call away.

[Robin Lumsden]

IMO Berlin hoard is real and sandboxman is a fraud.

David.

I don't have your sensory perception but I agree with the above.

[Luciusdegeer]

This could become very interesting...
I tried for several hours (sleepless night...) to find the infamous newspaper clipping, mostly in German web pages. As I speak German, I fed G**gle with almost every possible German word related to the BH. Nothing... But I seem to remember that the newspaper was a regional issue, so possibly the article wasn't digitalised at all. Not everything can be found on the net...
Brad, I await your findings with impatience. David, what a remarkable story! But not the first time I hear from such a way to authenticate items. I once witnessed a guy handling some SS officer's collar tabs. He put them to his mouth and sucked air through them. Then the guy declared the taste to be 'off'... The seller wasn't amused. The tabs were -luckily- fakes...
What an amazing little universe is this forum! You learn every day...

Greetings,

Lucius

[Gaspare]

- whats the big deal. Even if the story is true. Someone just got one from the hoard and copied it nicely..

Don't complicate it,,no one can tell the difference anymore anyway..
- Don't worry be happy.......

[Johnny R]

- whats the big deal. Even if the story is true. Someone just got one from the hoard and copied it nicely..

Don't complicate it,,no one can tell the difference anymore anyway..
- Don't worry be happy.......

I agree, and as stated the questions cannot be answered with the available information.

I cannot wait to see what Brad's "investigation" reveals. If the article never existed how would you find it. I do historical research with newspapers and books etc. everyday and would love to learn that trick.

Let me just make a prediction that- as stated 10 times now, there was a hoard but items claimed to be part of the find are not from there. Why is this hard.

The thread has longevity seemingly because most people seem to not understand why this is not obvious to others. Dumb stuff, the seller is lying.

[Luciusdegeer]

Johnny,

I'm a learned historian too. Finding the right sources is of course the key to finding the thruth. But let's face it: how much of history (even recent history) can be considered as really thruthful and accurate? We can only attemp at writing the real story... There's always a chance this article can't be found digitally. After all, the BH dates from before 2004. I keep looking...

L

[naxos]

None of the “supporters” evidence would hold up in a court of law…..

.

Neither would your arguments:

... .the evidence strongly suggests that the Berlin Hoard and the Sandman are the same person or origin of the “Berlin Hoard” and that the “Berlin Hoard” and “Sandman” artifacts are ALL 100% fake.

Conjecture

Equally strange is that the majority of the supporters of these skulls have never heard of the Sandbox Man, nor have they personally seen his table and this newspaper article, yet they all refer to this allusive newspaper article that shows workmen uncovering these skulls – which can ONLY be found on his table at show in Europe.
.

Generalization

... my concern that a fraud has occurred.
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Conjecture




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[Luciusdegeer]

Is this turning into an academic discussion? All we need now is a moral philosopher...


L