PZ wrapper stettin 43

[Lenny W]

Lucky, I stand by my comments on the "St" markings, even the 2 you post above look bad to me. Glenn

not sure what to think of the one on the guild but the weitze example is completly wrong

[Richard P]

The wrap pictured in photo #4 also appears to be a Janke according to the little bit of pocket stitching we see. All the St markings I have seen in wraps are that blue/purple ink, not that that is the only possibility....that is just all I have ever seen.

Richard

[LuckyStrike23]

Lucky, I stand by my comments on the "St" markings, even the 2 you post above look bad to me. Glenn

I do not know anymore what jackets belonged to the stamps (I save every stamp of jackets I consider as original), but it werent wrappers. It were any kind of field jacket.
I have a lot of St stamps in my archiv. You are right, most of them are blue, but a certain amount is not and I dont believe all of them are fakes:

[Glenn McInnes]

The wrap pictured in photo #4 also appears to be a Janke according to the little bit of pocket stitching we see.

Richard

Indeed,that double row is not a good sign. Believe I have seen the "St" markings in purple,black,white and yellow ink.






Glenn

[TOULON44]

wrapper

well guys

now i've the wrapper in hands . all the clothes used to buid this one are good and there is no anachronism for 1943 . nothing abnormal in the the building itself .
this wrapper is coming from glissa textil werk gmbh in postdam babelsberg about 150km from stettin(rb nber 0/0278/5102)and i'm pretty sure that this factory had got a contract to supply stettin army depot with uniforms wrappers or others so i think that each factory big or small had its own feature regarding the size stamping , stitching , building staying obviously in the specifications limits, so when it left the factory with hundreds others it was completed stamping include and i'm convinced that we can find many stamping disigns ink color due to the great number of workshops requisitioned for te wars third reich effort . it might be interresting to find an other uniform coming from this factory to compare the stamp .
this is what i think may be you'll not agree with me but it's my logical and we must keep in mind that from brest to moscou there were thousand factories working for the reich with hundreds variations possibilities.
here are other pics
regards
bernard

[TOULON44]

1

[TOULON44]

2

[TOULON44]

3

[Richard P]

Toulon44,

I'm pretty open minded about abnormalities on wraps. I have only seen one original wrap that had double lines of stitching on the interior pockets, and it was a custom tailored high ranking wrap. The bias or binding material looks good. Is the bias material glued to the wool? The interior sewing details still look like a Janke.

Richard

[phild]

Toulon44,

I'm pretty open minded about abnormalities on wraps. I have only seen one original wrap that had double lines of stitching on the interior pockets, and it was a custom tailored high ranking wrap. The bias or binding material looks good. Is the bias material glued to the wool? The interior sewing details still look like a Janke.

Richard

I agree fully with the above observations and not just because of their source!

I do have to say that in as much as many details of this wrap bother me in the context of it being a contract/issue type wrap, in photo 22 (I believe) I really like the wear and weave of the fabric that I see along the top edge of the collar underside. I can say that I have only seen material with this EXACT weave on original wraps and I don't believe that it has been made like this since the war. I can only conclude at this point that this wrap is a recent fake that is made from period cloth. The lining material is much less convincing and 5 or 6 other aspects are hard for me to accept when ALL found on one wrap!

I want to add that on a second look at photo 22, IMO the fabric used for the collar backing is NOT the same weave as used for the wrap body compare collar edge to lapel edge as both seen in that photo) I have seen slightly different collar back materials (than used in the wrap body) in many period wraps. I have also generally seen the coarser weave as seen in the lapel edge used in most post 42 dated wraps......but I have also seen most every good fake use a similar if not identical coarse weave as well. On most fakes the nap and finish is very smooth, but the actual weave is never the same as found on pre-43 dated wraps.

I have always been very challenged to deterimine 100% excellent later war wraps from fakes (like the one shown) because the variation in late war PZ wool can be very similar to good quality fakes of that wool.

[panzer_erc]

I agree fully with the above observations and not just because of their source!

I do have to say that in as much as many details of this wrap bother me in the context of it being a contract/issue type wrap, in photo 22 (I believe) I really like the wear and weave of the fabric that I see along the top edge of the collar underside. I can say that I have only seen material with this EXACT weave on original wraps and I don't believe that it has been made like this since the war. I can only conclude at this point that this wrap is a recent fake that is made from period cloth. The lining material is much less convincing and 5 or 6 other aspects are hard for me to accept when ALL found on one wrap!

I want to add that on a second look at photo 22, IMO the fabric used for the collar backing is NOT the same weave as used for the wrap body compare collar edge to lapel edge as both seen in that photo) I have seen slightly different collar back materials (than used in the wrap body) in many period wraps. I have also generally seen the coarser weave as seen in the lapel edge used in most post 42 dated wraps......but I have also seen most every good fake use a similar if not identical coarse weave as well. On most fakes the nap and finish is very smooth, but the actual weave is never the same as found on pre-43 dated wraps.

I have always been very challenged to deterimine 100% excellent later war wraps from fakes (like the one shown) because the variation in late war PZ wool can be very similar to good quality fakes of that wool.

I agree with you Phild,
IMHO first of all the collar tabs piping is wrong and the skulls as well. The liner is not as found in original examples, colour and material looks wrong. And last, the stamps are not as ussualy found in originals. You can see well know examples in the picture that somebody post in the forum some time ago. It is just my opinion.

[phild]

I agree with you Phild,
IMHO first of all the collar tabs piping is wrong and the skulls as well. The liner is not as found in original examples, colour and material looks wrong. And last, the stamps are not as ussualy found in originals. You can see well know examples in the picture that somebody post in the forum some time ago. It is just my opinion.

Yes on all of the above and we can add to that the stitching on the collar reverse, while technically correct, is not at all typical in it's execution and detailed appearance as to what is found on issue wraps and even less so on later war wraps.

It is my experience that the first serious from the ground up fake uniforms (not to include caps here) to be made were PZ wraps and this started in the mid-1970s. I'm not talking about modified uniforms or even complete reproductions, but rather from the ground up FAKES. We have now have had these PZ uniforms being faked for 35 years and they have been through many evolutions and from many different sources.

Even some of the first fakes to be slipped into the market fooled the brightest dealers and collectors at time...at least for a short while. It is always interesting for me to see all of the variations of the fakes....many of which are more "correct" than this one.

[TOULON44]

well guys

and about the eagle , it's machine sewed not hand sewed not zigzag but straight stitches without liner removing and it's a goog one ?...,
fake entirely made with period clothes ,good eagle, skull referenced in french book , for sure books are our bible ...many french collectors 'll cry reading this !!

bernard

here are the books pics

[LuckyStrike23]

well guys

and about the eagle , it's machine sewed not hand sewed not zigzag but straight stitches without liner removing and it's a goog one ?...,
f

Why not?
Its difficult to restore a original coat with machine stitching, but a new one.....no problem IMO.
Beside, I would not buy all of those skulls shown on your book.

[TOULON44]

the center is the skull of the tabs