Bullion AFRIKA cuff title

[tgn]

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[hdmarley]

cuff title

how are these different than the one i attached in a thread. i noticed a edge difference but what am i missing?? thank for any advice received?

[Dennis GT]

I have one like this but just a little different.

Hi Bill, Where have you been?

[Dennis GT]

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[afrikasandman]

I still like these and if anyone ever wants to part with theirs, please let me know. Matt

[Bill Gaynor]

I still stand (IMO) that being that these are custom made like the DAK rings that you will see a standard pattern followed but different embellishments and variations to cuff band, trim, pattern variations to bullion wire. Since if they were made outside of the factory where the originals were made access to the same materials would not be there. I think you just have to go a little bit on faith, possible source, historic photos, materials used being consitant to time period and that of similar cuffs. As mentioned this was more than likely not used by the common soldier but more by an officer. I you have ever looked at the DAK rings there are the common almost crude designs bought by the common soldier for what he could afford and then there are those that would be more intricate in there design that obviously had alot of time put into them which I would say were bought by someone of greater means (officer).
And the cuffs may have been made after the Afrika Campaign in Italy or back in streets in North Afrika by street venders, maybe back in Germany by a tailor ?
Well theres my opinion for what it is worth .
Bill

[39inf]

Afrika Cuff Title

I found this old thread and thought I would post this "Afrika" cuff title I got recently. You can probably see from the photos that the front is considerably more
faded from exposure than the reverse parts. The bullion is extremely well done. Just would like some opinions. Thanks

[Tim O'Keefe]

Don't want to rain on the parade but at this point its a fantasy piece. There is just no evidence of these being worn by the Herr in the war. Believe me, Matt & i have tried for years to find just a thread of evidence without success. Show me a photo of one being worn in the war i will gladly change my tune. This almost 10 year old thread only reinforces the doubts as there is still no evidence since this thread began 10 years ago....

There were bullion Afrika ct's for sure just not worn by the DAK in Afrika, KM & LW yes. The standard Afrika ct was not worn in Afrika. The earliest photos confirming it in use are the LW ground personel in the Med Theatre mid '43. Should mention the bullion ct's with the black thread in the palms are fakes from the 70's.

This thread mentiond the un-official Herr black AKCT's, Afrika & DAK ct's these were made prior to the standard AKCT. which replaced them essentially.

Show me a photo of a bullion ct being worn in Afrika by the Herr ?

In this thread Mike's ct in post #7 & 8 is a good one but worn by the LW as stated.

[39inf]

Afrika Cuff Title

Thanks Tim, don't worry about the rain, I have an umbrella. I don't have a dime in it.
Came with a fake document that I posted. Again thanks for your input.
Terry

[JasonA]

It stands to reason that a bullion Afrika Ct would have been made and worn at some point during the period by a few officers or generals. We may or may not see a photo of one, but the latter doesn't lessen the possibility of thei existence in my opinion.

J-

[afrikasandman]

Don't want to rain on the parade but at this point its a fantasy piece. There is just no evidence of these being worn by the Herr in the war. Believe me, Matt & i have tried for years to find just a thread of evidence without success. Show me a photo of one being worn in the war i will gladly change my tune. This almost 10 year old thread only reinforces the doubts as there is still no evidence since this thread began 10 years ago....

There were bullion Afrika ct's for sure just not worn by the DAK in Afrika, KM & LW yes. The standard Afrika ct was not worn in Afrika. The earliest photos confirming it in use are the LW ground personel in the Med Theatre mid '43. Should mention the bullion ct's with the black thread in the palms are fakes from the 70's.

This thread mentiond the un-official Herr black AKCT's, Afrika & DAK ct's these were made prior to the standard AKCT. which replaced them essentially.

Show me a photo of a bullion ct being worn in Afrika by the Herr ?

In this thread Mike's ct in post #7 & 8 is a good one but worn by the LW as stated.

I'm sure we will get a pic eventually. Matt

[Tim O'Keefe]

It stands to reason that a bullion Afrika Ct would have been made and worn at some point during the period by a few officers or generals. We may or may not see a photo of one, but the latter doesn't lessen the possibility of thei existence in my opinion.

J-

I believe thats very unlikely. We know the standard Afrika /w palms ct was not seen by any personel until after Afrika had fallen by several months. A bullion version would have only been made after the standard version was issued to personel. This would have to have been in Europe mid '43 at the earliest & not in Afrika. So i think if we will "ever" see any evidence it will be on a Continental tunic not a tropical tunic.

I used to "believe" in these with Matt & others years ago, but switched my opinion after years of searching for any evidence and also after talking to many advanced DAK collectors that do not post on the WAF. Not one of them thought there was any chance for these bullion ct's. There is a very good reason why there are No examples in Dal McGuirk's masterpiece "Rommel' Army in Afrika ? The Kurtz book has a ct with the black thread in the palms which has since been declared a fake from the 70's. No DAK vet has ever said these existed, of those asked directly.

No one had ever seen one before the mid 70's when the black threaded palms first appeared....

Again to be clear, am talking about the bullion version of the standard Afrika ct w/palms. Have seen plenty of black AKCT's & DAK ct's. and also Herr Black or LW dark blue Afrika without palms ct's as well.

[Antonio Scapini]

Tim, have you ever seen a picture of the gothic black Afrika CT?
You say they are original, are you able to support why with a picture?

These bullion CTs must be studied in deep, and there's a reason why I don't show here all what I found in these years. A lot of myths and wrong opinions are around since years and years.
I saw here original pieces dismissed as fakes only why those who dismissed didn't like them, bad cufftitles judged good and a lot of wrong infos.

[Tim O'Keefe]

Hi Antonio

Good to hear from you on this subject. Not sure which version of the gothic black Afrika ct you mean ? So here are the basic four types...

[Tim O'Keefe]

couple more