Very much so. These things slowly over the past 7 years are finally becoming more plain for all to see and in this case cannot be disputed or defended as far as Im concerned. I hope people learn from this.
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You are right Dave! Knowing you craft wouldn't help much on this fraud! I believe that this type of thing is far more common than many collectors would like to admit.Originally posted by Dave Kane View PostWatch out boys!!! John Pic and I agree on something! Will wonders ever cease?!!
Thanks John but let's not lose the focus or core of this thread so I'd like to address Jeff's post....
This isn't about knowledge of a hobby, dealer caution or even about mis-informed miatakes! This is about a blatent, in your face, kiss my a** as I'm above it.....FRAUD!!! There isn't an 'out' here as it's obvious and contemporary
best wishes,
jeffLooking for a 30 '06 Chauchat magazine.Comment
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Take a look at that sewing job. Thats not done by a newbi or "first timer" thats for sure
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I wonder if there is something to the old axium of " what goes around..comes around "............
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=182784
Maybe, someone could directly ask him to comment as the silence is not helping!
This Forum has carried his 'loss' for some weeks now and Dietrich felt strongly enough to 'pin' the post so let's hear from this fellow!Last edited by Dave Kane; 12-23-2006, 10:46 PM.Regards,
DaveComment
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I agree with Dave. Have someone emailed Weitze about this uniform?
Merry Christmas
PeterComment
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Weitze is not the only wellknown dealer that uses some creative retayloring to create rare tunics. I have had experience of another that does headgear as well as tunics. Nick, I am gaining a lot of respect for your knowlegde and I am learning a lot about caps. keep up the good work. JacquesComment
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Guys, this is something I have said for years...all dealers do stuff like this!...every single one of them. Even the so called 'good" ones. Its part of the business they run and always has been. Placing any kind of blind trust in a TR dealer is very dangerousComment
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Originally posted by Dave Kane View Post
I disagree. That is, or should be, what this is exactly about.
And the Very Simple lesson to be taught (and Remembered) is that it is probably best to trust NO ONE who sells this stuff, especially if they are making a living doing it. The Very best offer spurious items and the dregs can have gems. It is entirely up to the collector to navigate the mine field.
That has just always been a way of life with this hobby.
I have always been a FIRM believer that a moderate, healthy sense of paranoia is a good thing in collecting
B. N. SingerComment
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That is sad.... embarrassing.
I have seen this "thread" in so many web sites around the world that this is going to expensive to him...- Military historian and dealer from Finland.
- Collecting Finnish awards, German EK1's 1939, KVK1's w/o swords and Tirolian shooting badges.
I still need EK1's L/14 Screwback and Pinback.Comment
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Originally posted by Flakhelfer View PostHi Ade
The tunic is being offered as untouched original tunic and came directly from a private household.
Cheers
Bob
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Well, at least one of the three you mention is no better than the German dealer being discussed here...Originally posted by NTZ View PostWhen collectors are complaining about prices just remember this thread. I will gladly cough up a few extra bucks to the likes of Stezelberger, Shea or Whamond knowing they don’t embellish, mislead or out-and-out lie about what they sell.
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Long before the advent of the internet U.S. dealers at various shows etc. used to tell me that they could find uniforms "out of Europe" should one wish to pay the broker price. I hate to say this but many times Weitze, Winkler, and others were the source for these people..remember the often heard and lamented phrase "supply and demand". No one knows without evidence like this and or direct provenance when insignias are sewn onto a uniform.
This was the gist of a thread recently gone south on the SS forum partially due to my overzealous behavior. I was hoping to accent a point I assumed another member was making. Some rare uniforms especially SS even in a stripped state are more important and historical than the minty ones being sold as original today by many dealers.
In cases like this you must even question common Heer tunics and sadly I hate to say that some of the examples sold on these sites are later bought and resold by the U.S. dealers as untouched and in many cases those dealers do not know the original sources. I saw tunics listed by Weitze and others whos tunics are often questioned at one time show up on the racks of other dealers at shows. The disease has spread and infected the flock so to say so it comes down to just accepting or not what you pay for ...either that or demand exact provenance on everything you buy.
I agree its fraudulent representation but its the collectors fault ...we have had these forums going on 8-10 years now and everytime people side with the old school experts and dealers because lets face it they feel its better to kiss ass and retain access to the occaisional original items these guys sell or piss them off and get black listed,called names on the forums be nown as a whiner a malcontent...rude etc. etc. as some of us have risked doing.Dont attack dealers who are loved has always been the policy on these forums and if you do do it with extreme discretion...thats the game and we will see where it goes from here
To be blunt honest I have become numb to it and my attitude now is "if you cant beat em dont knock em." Some nice original items have come from these sources as well..you just have to use your head.
Last edited by John Pic; 12-24-2006, 01:16 PM.Comment
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Agree!!! Your words, my thoughts. If a collector doesn´t get suspicious when he sees, for exampel, half a dozen of wraparound tunics – Heer or Waffen-SS doesn´t matter – on a dealer´s homesite...Originally posted by John Pic View PostLong before the advent of the internet U.S. dealers at various shows etc. used to tell me that they could find uniforms "out of Europe" should one wish to pay the broker price. I hate to say this but many times Weitze, Winkler, and others were the source for these people..remember the often heard and lamented phrase "supply and demand". No one knows without evidence like this and or direct provenance when insignias are sewn onto a uniform.
This was the gist of a thread recently gone south on the SS forum partially due to my overzealous behavior. I was hoping to accent a point I assumed another member was making. Some rare uniforms especially SS even in a stripped state are more important and historical than the minty ones being sold as original today by many dealers.
In cases like this you must even question common Heer tunics and sadly I hate to say that some of the examples sold on these sites are later bought and resold by the U.S. dealers as untouched and in many cases those dealers do not know the original sources. I saw tunics listed by Weitze and others whos tunics are often questioned at one time show up on the racks of other dealers at shows. The disease has spread and infected the flock so to say so it comes down to just accepting or not what you pay for ...either that or demand exact provenance on everything you buy.
I agree its fraudulent representation but its the collectors fault ...we have had these forums going on 8-10 years now and everytime people side with the old school experts and dealers because lets face it they feel its better to kiss ass and retain access to the occaisional original items these guys sell or piss them off and get black listed,called names on the forums be nown as a whiner a malcontent...rude etc. etc. as some of us have risked doing.Dont attack dealers who are loved has always been the policy on these forums and if you do do it with extreme discretion...thats the game and we will see where it goes from here
To be blunt honest I have become numb to it and my attitude now is "if you cant beat em dont knock em." Some nice original items have come from these sources as well..you just have to use your head. Comment
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....opinions, opinions.....Comment
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