Denim Panzer Wrap for Opinion

[Bob Hritz]

Mike D,

I have had the opportunity to have this tunic for examination. I am not any expert at garments, but I study cloth. This tunic is old. I would love to have it, if I could come up with something Jim wanted. There are just too many modifications, from the garment as manufactured, for me to believe it is anything but wartime.

I have a common tropical tunic with shortened skirt, moved pockets, altered cuffs, etc, and the tunic only shows light wear. It is a direct vet purchase, from my ads, in weatern Illinois. I believe these modified tunics are more interesting, although they are also less the norm and easily chastized.

Bob Hritz

[Mike Davis]

Mike D,

I have had the opportunity to have this tunic for examination. I am not any expert at garments, but I study cloth. This tunic is old. I would love to have it, if I could come up with something Jim wanted. There are just too many modifications, from the garment as manufactured, for me to believe it is anything but wartime.

I have a common tropical tunic with shortened skirt, moved pockets, altered cuffs, etc, and the tunic only shows light wear. It is a direct vet purchase, from my ads, in weatern Illinois. I believe these modified tunics are more interesting, although they are also less the norm and easily chastized.

Bob Hritz

Hi Bob, It isn't the modifications (I think we've seen just about everything done to issue pieces) that give me pause, but rather the fabric used for the wrap - never seen an example made of this cloth. But then there is so much I don't know and haven't seen. Maybe you and/or Jim can tote it to The MAX show.

[djpool]

Hi Bob, It isn't the modifications (I think we've seen just about everything done to issue pieces) that give me pause, but rather the fabric used for the wrap - never seen an example made of this cloth. But then there is so much I don't know and haven't seen. Maybe you and/or Jim can tote it to The MAX show.

Mike,

If you haven't seen 62 and 63, this shows an almost identical wartime fabric. Unfortunately its not a wrap. If Bob goes to the MAX I will ask if he can carry the wrap and Ski jacket along. WR Jim

[Mike Davis]

Right. It isn't the fabric itself that is of concern, just haven't seen an issue wrap made out of the stuff! So, it would be great to see it in person. Cheers.

[derka]

Mr Davis,

does your green hbt one have rbnr markings ?

regards
derka

[ARDITO]

Hi Gentlemen,
I don't understand where the problem of the zig zag under the collar.
I had find my complete in the rags and I purchased it to the price of 40 $
I am sure of his originality, and I am happy to have it in collection.
I'm sure with the fact that exist exemplary without the zig zag also.
And however the cotton with which these types of jackets are manufactured is different from that used for the Nco tunics in "moleskin" .
Regards, Luca

[djpool]

Hi, interesting thread, here are a few shots of an lah wrapper with a zigzap collar backing and a cut similiar to Luca's .......maui

Maui,

Can you possible take some additional pictures? If possible could you show the same details Luca showed? WR Jim

[Bob Hritz]

Jim,

I have squeezed in space for another wrapper. You could always just leave it here again! See you tomorrow.

Bob Hritz

[djpool]

Breaking News
The difficulty of trying to authenticate this wrap has always been the lack of another original wrap to compare it with. Well that all changed this week. Through the graciousness of Mike Davis I was finally able to get some detailed pictures. Mike is one of only a handful of collectors fortunate enough to own an undisputed original 2d Model (Mouse grey or as I call them denim wrap). The wrap itself is a well worn example and has been in the hand of collectors for several decades. It pre dates all the French fakes and is the standard by which all other denim wraps are judged. It is featured in the Edwards/Pruett book on Panzer uniforms. However no details of construction were shown.
Once I found out that Mike owned the wrap, I asked him if I could get some pictures to compare with mine. Without hesitation Mike flooded the airways with pictures. So to Mike, many, many thanks for this kind gesture. I've always felt that the people not necessarily the artifacts we collect are what make this hobby so enjoyable.
Once I made my comparisons, copies were sent to a small number of prominent collectors for comment. I'll either post comments sent to me directly or let them speak for themselves. I usually am not so secretive about releasing information. However given the rarity of these wraps and the ease with which they can be copied; I have deleted most of my pictures and will only post a few edited pictures of the comparison.
The following comments are strictly my own views. They may not necessarily reflect the views of the other collectors who got the comparison photos. At first I couldn't believe my eyes. Except for the color and possible the base cloth we were looking at twins.
First they were both processed through the same depot and stamped exactly the same. The buttons and finishing materials are identical. Allowing for slight variances in sewing due to different machines, tension settings and seamstresses I'm fairly confident both wraps were made by the same manufacturer. Mikes RBN number was too faded to read so I can't positively state that as a fact.
I mentioned that I was uncertain if the base cloth is actually all that different. It’s a tricky cloth to photograph. Mikes cloth is well worn and the cloth on my wrap is unworn. When compared side to side they look different. However when I converted the comparison to a negative image they look similar. Now this wasn't a controlled comparison. In other words I didn't scan a similar area of cloth using the same DPI setting. I just approximated it to get a general feel. ( see pic below)
I've always felt the wrap was original. But after 15 years its nice to have some concrete evidence to back me up.
Again my thanks to Mike Davis for his help.
Here are a few pictures just to give you a feel for what was compared. I will post any comments sent to me, once I receive them.WR Jim

[djpool]

Here are 3 samples of the comparisons that were made. These shouldn't be of help to the fakers.

[djpool]

#2.Pay particular attention to the details of the thread, fraying, method of application etc.

[djpool]

last pic

[BDE]

Re:

How about a shot of the whole wrap ?

Brian

[djpool]

How about a shot of the whole wrap ?

Brian

Brian,

I'm assuming your talking about Mike Davis' wrap?
The full length of mine are still up.wr Jim

[BDE]

Re:

Hello Jim.
Yes, That is correct, I assume it is the one on page 248 of Pruett & Edwards book?

Brian