Kommandantur or wagon eagle

[RAPH]

Found this morning on a Fleas Market.
For buiding or wagon ?
Regards.
RAPH

[Berghof]

Thanks for posting RAPH. This is a railway eagle. Can you provide better close-up pictures of the mounting studs and any manufacturer markings?

[RAPH]

BERGHOF, no markings.
Studs close up view :





Regards.
RAPH

[Berghof]

Raph, I wish I could examine this one in person. It would take all but 10 seconds to determine if its authentic.

Here are my concerns:
1. Extremely rough casting. I don't like what I see. Yes, this could be corrosion, but it may be a poor reproduction casting.
2. No manufacturer markings or any markings for that matter.
3. Mounting studs that were molded and not machined/threaded. This example has a non-standard stud with inner threading. Wilhelm Saris documented this type of stud in his book "Reichsbahn Eagles" on page 227 illustration g. He describes it as follows: "stud with inner threading. Occasionally it is thought that this form was used on fakes, but official drawings indicate it was actually done at that time." This type of stud is not common and I've yet to see one in person.

Sorry...but I'll need more pictures of the following:
1. Top of the eagles head, meaning the edge/side.
2. Top or bottom of the wing edges.
3. A close up of the backside of the eagles breast (see below pic of circled area where to focus)
4. A close up of the backside of the eagles right wing (bottom feather - see below pic of circled area where to focus).

-Mike

[Military]

No need for further pics. It's a cast fake.

Mil

[mrec27777]

wonder why it has cut-outs above both wing studs?..and is stud metric threaded?...just a thought ..

[Berghof]

wonder why it has cut-outs above both wing studs?..and is stud metric threaded?...just a thought ..

Exactly. The cut-outs caught my eye and something else did as well (see below pic). That's why I asked for pics of the top of the eagles head and wings...to look for filing marks to remove flashing. A step repros don't bother with.

I hate like hell to condemn anything before I get to see a few different areas on it. Pictures and lighting can deceive/exaggerate surface finish. I can't imagine someone tossing this into the scrap pile if it's real.

Although the mounting studs aren't traditional, I haven't seen them this way on any repro. The fact that Wilhelm points out this style stud being on blueprints makes me want to take the extra step and ask for additional photos. As I said before, I haven't had an eagle with this stud configuration in my hands before. This one intrigues me. Believe me...this thing is rough, but I'd feel better if I had more pictures before making a final decision. It has a few things going for it.

.

[RAPH]

Thanks BERGHOF for your help.
Markings are present.
I juste had a sponge witgh scrapper to clean it.
I hope it will help you on your analysis.
Regards.
RAPH

[Berghof]

Thanks RAPH. As painful as this may be...We're almost there...You forgot the photos of the wing edges and edge of the eagles head (provide pictures like the ones below). Please don't clean these surfaces. I would like to see them as is.

Thanks

[mrec27777]

i'm liking this bird ..again, RAPH , can you possibly check if threaded posts are metric?...EC

[JR.]

An obvious post war repop, without a single doubt.

[Berghof]

I agree with JR and Military, I was trying to walk through this step by step to educate.

It's a copy of an Henschel-Werke (HE) adler. The longer than normal mounting studs (on a repro) made me 2nd guess at first...but once I saw the horribly casted HE and composition marks, lack of machining on the studs, I knew this wasn't good...HE never made a stud config like this...or at least I never saw one like it. Every HE example I handled had stamps on the studs (perhaps inspection stamps?).

All in all, It's a poorly cast reproduction. If this eagle was a victim of age/corrosion, you would expect all surfaces to be equally corroded...and they are not. Also, if the stud was unfinished, it would be conical shaped.

I would still like RAPH to upload the photos of the wing tops and head so everyone can see the difference between the photos I submitted.


.

[RAPH]

Thanks Guys.
Regards.
RAPH

[Berghof]

If it's not too much trouble, are you able to post the other pictures? I think it would be helpful to future collectors. This stuff may be obvious for us that deal with this day in and day out, but it's not obvious to the average collector.

Also, are the pics you provided linked or uploaded? If they are linked, I'll pull them off this thread and upload. Linked pictures tend to go away over time and this thread will not be helpful.

Thanks!
Mike

[mrec27777]

An obvious post war repop, without a single doubt.

you are correct again JR (and MILITARY)...thought,hoped it had a chance .as there are so many variations out there as shown in yours and WILHEIMS informative books..good learning experience ,as another reproduction example is examined.. EC.