U Boat surrender flag...

[Michael N]

He later got the U-805 Kriegsflag and some cutlery from the submarine as souvenirs:

So you are saying that there are two flags from the same ship? Or one is the real and one is just made up?

[Jtrew1984]

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item...o-surrender-in

[John R.]

Flag discussion only.

Moving to correct forum.

John

[oldflagswanted]

"real" U-boat flags ???

Here is a favorite "real" U-boat flag photo.
Shows an especially rare KM sub flag pole
top - swastika in non-snag wreath circle.
OFW

[Michael N]

Here is a favorite "real" U-boat flag photo.
Shows an especially rare KM sub flag pole
top - swastika in non-snag wreath circle.
OFW

[NOR_collector]

Could this be the black flag?

Regards,
André

[NOR_collector]

KM marking and marking Schwart (I think) size 50x60

[oldflagswanted]

KM black signal flag ...

Could this be the black flag?

Regards,
André

Hello André:
Indeed that would be the one.
Especially with the late war double
circle KM spec stamp in post 37b.
OFW
(below) KM double circle mark on lower right.

[NOR_collector]

That's great news for me. I just got this flag!

[Michael N]

Photos copyrighted by the auction house. Need permission to post here. John

John or the moderator in this section,
I would like to know the rule on the forum regarding posting images that are taken from other websites.

I don't want a private message response I would like something posted openly on this thread.

Thanks,
Michael

[oldflagswanted]

about historical use signal flags ...

That's great news for me. I just got this flag!

Hello André:
IMO your KM black signal flag is a great find. Bravo !!!
Especially in light of the added historical use context
about this flag per this informative WAF thread.
OFW
(below) Another signal flag with added historical
use significance - Imperial Japanese Navy "Z" Flag.
"Although not an official national flag, the Z signal flag
played a major role in Japanese naval history. On May
27, 1905, Admiral Heihachirō Tōgō of the Mikasa was
preparing to engage the Russian Baltic Fleet. Before
the Battle of Tsushima began, Togo raised the Z flag
on the Mikasa and engaged the Russian fleet, winning
the battle for Japan. The raising of the flag said to the
crew the following: "The fate of Imperial Japan hangs
on this one battle; all hands will exert themselves and
do their best." The Z flag was also raised on the aircraft
carrier Akagi on the eve of the Japan's attack on Pearl
Harbor, Hawaii, in December 1941"
Period use photo shows the WW2 IJN Z-Flag.

[Bill D.]

I found this topic from a citation to it by OFW in a thread in the US section on U.S. Navy national flags in World War II.

And I'm just curious...

Does anyone know what the actual intended use was of the black flag in the Kriegsmarine?

It obviously had some purpose since it was included in the signals flag chart that OFW posted and, presumably, U-Boats carried black flags in their flag lockers.

But what was it for?

[billbert]

A quick look in nautical terms...black flag in military ..No quarter given nor expected...no prisoners taken...similar to the pirates Jolly Roger..Billbert

Great thread by the way....

[Bill D.]

Just in case anyone is interested....

I wrote to a reference librarian at the U.S. Navy's "Naval History and Heritage Command" in Washington, D.C., to inquire as to the maritime meaning of a black flag. Several days later he wrote back to me and replied as follows:

"From what I've been able to find a black flag is what's called a preparatory flag, used to indicate the start of a procedure or movement."

I'm not sure why U-boats on war patrols would have ever needed to indicate the start of some procedure or movement, but that was the reply and, of course, I was very grateful to the librarian for his time and assistance.

[oldflagswanted]

U-boat black flag use ???

... reference librarian at the U.S. Navy's "Naval History and
Heritage Command" in Washington, D.C., to inquire as to the
maritime meaning of a black flag. ... replied as follows: ... a
black flag is what's called a preparatory flag, used to indicate
the start of a procedure or movement."

I'm not sure why U-boats on war patrols would have ever
needed to indicate the start of some procedure or movement, ...

A belated thanks for asking the black flag use
question and for posting the interesting reply.
One U-boat "movement" that comes to mind is
the Wolfpack attack. However, as this was done
mostly at night a black flag would not work well.
So maybe the black flag was a seldom done day
Wolfpack attack call signal flag.
OFW
(below) My arrow attack flag from Braveheart.