DE sells for $86,365 , in case you missed it ???

[oldflagswanted]

real vs. fake standard ???

Returned to Rome and for sale here;http://www.niximperial.com/
Cheers,
_________
Robert

Robert:
No, what you've shown are commercial made fakes! As with
"real" vs. repro DE's, there are likewise authentic screen used movie
prop standards vs. reenactor or other display use reproductions. As I
said before true movie props are collectible in their own right - in this
case actual standards used in MGM's Ben Hur 1925 and 1959, and in the
Gladiator-2000 film. But as per your posted repro example pantheon,
not all are in the Roman Legion eagle style, some use other Legion animals.
................. OLDFLAGSWANTED ...............

[Dallasfan]

I am a newcomer to the hobby and I have often wondered "whos going to buy my stuff in 20 years?"

If you look at the youth of today,,my nephews are 19-20 years old and are interested in World of Warcraft and other electronic crap,,,

back in the early seventies our culture was a little different,,
and alot of those who got into collecting had direct relatives who were involved in the war,,,nowadays,,,what do we have?

Look around at the shows,,how many "younger" collectors do you see?

mostly guys in there 50's and 60's,,,,I'm not so sure that these crazy TR prices will continue,,,but I could be wrong In the last year alone I have seen a signifigant downward shift in prices on common items

Hello

This is a very interesting .
Here is another thread about young collectors and the high prices of TR stuff .
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ung+collectors .



Regards , Johan

[Robert T.]

Robert:
No, what you've shown are commercial made fakes! As with
"real" vs. repro DE's, there are likewise authentic screen used movie
prop standards vs. reenactor or other display use reproductions. As I
said before true movie props are collectible in their own right - in this
case actual standards used in MGM's Ben Hur 1925 and 1959, and in the
Gladiator-2000 film. But as per your posted repro example pantheon,
not all are in the Roman Legion eagle style, some use other Legion animals.

I knew that they were fakes, it was a "tongue-in-cheek" post...

Regards,
___________
Robert

[oldflagswanted]

more on the 10 parts of a "real" DE ???

For those who may have missed the details, the $86K EMA DE sale was
actually just for three of the ten parts of a "real" DE. These parts are
nicely outlined in the Ulric/Bender-Pubs DE book, the 10 parts being:

1.) eagle on wreath top
2.) unit name & NSDAP title box
3.) top pole section
4.) bottom pole section
5.) banner cross pole
6.) left banner tassel
7.) right banner tassel
8.) banner cloth
9.) 1934 rally streamer
10.) cover, for parts 1-9

The $86K EMA DE parts were (5,6,7,8), with part 5 being rarest.
I have the only known (to me) part 10 (see DE book page 320),
but I am missing part 7 - WW2 vet only brought back a single
tassel with my Munchen-II DE banner (pages 399-402). I found
a part 9 (page 285) at the last PMS for $850, also a rare piece
usually selling for several thousand when listed online. So the
big question remains what are all the parts togeather worth today? <!-- / message -->

[rkdek]

Oldflags,

You counted the buyers premium to the auction house, but I think you forgot the state tax!

I'm happy to have parts 1 & 2, I participated in this auction but it went way out of my league!

Whats the value of the complete DE Standarte? Who will tell? Are you looking for buyers for the München II? Just kidding!

[prussian.guard]

if only i could find myself a time machine

[rkdek]

if only i could find myself a time machine

So true but then again there would be to much DE's around!

[oldflagswanted]

sales tax and more ???

Oldflags,
You counted the buyers premium to the auction house, but I think
you forgot the state tax! I'm happy to have parts 1 & 2, I participated
in this auction but it went way out of my league! ...

Denis:
Depends if you bought in the same state as the auction, as to if
sales tax applies - we don't yet know from where or who won the
three EMA DE parts. Your parts 1 & 2 are major parts to have,
bravo twice! by the way the München-II DE banner is the
only part 8 stand alone identifiable without part 2, not of course
counting the SS-LSAH 2nd issue which really isn't a DE per se.
............. OLDFLAGSWANTED ...........

[Richard]

Amazing price and certainly out of the league of most on this forum. I have to think what other things I could buy for that sum that would improve my or my families life more than a display that will sit in the living room.

A collectible is worth only what someone is willing to pay. It isn't a necessity of life but one of the luxuries that you can buy with disposable income. I too, don't buy with future value in mind as I collect because I enjoy it, not because I think it will make me money. It is nice if I can sell for more than I have paid, but the expectation to do so is not there.

Every collecting field has cycles. Generally the price trend over time is up, but there are dips along the way caused by various things such as falling demand because people have turned elsewhere (think beanie babies, baseball cards), discovery of a hoard (think of the Deschler hoard - prices on mint KVK1s have steadily declined), an unusually fast spike in prices when people who think they can make a fast buck enter a hobby (think rare coins in the late 80's) or from a number of other factors.

In order for any collecting field to survive, there have to be collectors willing to put the effort and some money into acquiring pieces for their collections. Without an interest in the objects in question, prices cannot be sustained. Regardless of the field, there will always be those that want the rarest or best, even if they have no real interest in the object and just want the bragging rights. Hence most of the high end items in virtually any collecting field suffer less in a downturn. They are rare and demand is usually greater than supply.

Our hobby had its beginnings during the war and is now over 60 years old. The first tier of collectors (the vets themselves) are disappearing at an alarming rate and the out of the woodwork era is rapidly coming to an end or at least will slow to a mere trickle. The second tier collectors, those that got interested at an early age when this was still a blue collar hobby, are now past middle age and are mostly AARP members. There are some big collections that will hit the market when they or their heirs decide it is time to sell. The time will come (and may already be here) when the majority of items have to be bought from dealers or gotten from other collectors.

As each tier of collector comes about, they become further removed from having been touched in some way by the events that created what we enjoy. This means that for the hobby to sustain the prices we now see, there have to individuals who have a love for history that they have never experienced first or second hand, or a lot of guys with money that love to buy TR stuff.

Civil war items are a bad comparison. I have yet to see a privately owned, unmessed with Confederate tunic but I've seen hundreds of TR tunics and thousands of helmets. The Civil war stuff is esoteric to most and commands huge prices because of supply and demand. There doesn't have to be much demand for the very sparse supply to command high prices. On the other hand, I don't think in 30 years time there will be enough collector demand for the millions of KVK2s to be selling for $1000 each.

You can see in any collecting field that there was a "golden age" when the common items peaked in price and then fell, never to recover. We may have reached this age for our hobby now as we are starting to see the common items sell for less each day. The high prices drove scores of items out of hiding and the supply of common items out there has pretty well flooded the market. Will an EK2 still sell for over $100 in 10 years? Hard to know for sure but I don't think this is a realistic value for a medal you can find anywhere and which was produced in the millions. Keep in mind inflation plays a part too. The dollar of 1970 was probably worth 5 or 6 times what the dollar is worth now so an increase in price is not only due to the objects increase in value.

The rare will always hold a mystique. How many can say they have a DE standard, one of Hitler's tunics, a Coburg badge or any other really rare item? There will always be those with money that want to own rare items, even if they know little of what the item represents. I certainly hope that enough new collectors continue to come into this hobby to keep it alive. I think there will always be those with an interest in history as people still collect things from hundreds and even thousands of years ago. The question is, will there be enough to support some of the prices we have seen?
Richard V

[oldflagswanted]

about going back in time ???

if only i could find myself a time machine

P-G:
IMO walking away with a DE would be a really big problem getting through
that crowd. Likewise, the "Time Machine", but with control panel not
included, was sold off at the same 1970 MGM Studio Auction as my Ben Hur
1925/1959 Roman Legion Standarte, it would be nice to have too!
............

[Bob Hritz]

Richard,

When I am dead, I don't care what happens to the stuff. My wife is too smart to burn it, but it won't matter to those in the Great Void.


I collect the stuff because I like to look at it.

My wife is also smart enough to call Stephen Wolfe and consign the collection, if he dioes not buy it outright.


Bob Hritz

[oldflagswanted]

Surperb DE photo...

Richard,
When I am dead, I don't care what happens to the stuff. My wife
is too smart to burn it, but it won't matter to those in the Great Void.
I collect the stuff because I like to look at it. My wife is also smart
enough to call Stephen Wolfe and consign the collection, if he dioes
not buy it outright.
Bob Hritz

Bob:
Superb DE photo, thanks for posting same. IMO it looks like
your entry ticket to Valhalla is quite secure. Hey, I see you
have a duplicate DE tassel, how about selling me one? But,
I already know your answer.
.............. OLDFLAGSWANTED ..............

[Richard]

Richard,

When I am dead, I don't care what happens to the stuff. My wife is too smart to burn it, but it won't matter to those in the Great Void.


I collect the stuff because I like to look at it.

My wife is also smart enough to call Stephen Wolfe and consign the collection, if he dioes not buy it outright.


Bob Hritz

Some fantastic stuff there Bob. You never disappoint with pics of your collection. I don't think most of us care what happens with the stuff when we die but we certainly hope our heirs are educated enough not to toss the collection or sell it for a fraction of its value. You are fortunate in that you started in the days when much was to be had at prices that would make many cry today. I would wager the collection you have would be much more difficult to assemble if you were starting out today and might even be considered prohibitive for the majority of the collectors out there. There are quite a few collectors such as yourself who have amassed a collection that would make a museum jealous. If 10 of these collections hit the market at once, I have no doubt several items would see a price decrease, even if only for a short while. The great stuff will always find a home. For the younger collector on a limited budget, putting together even just what can be seen in your picture would be far out of reach.
Richard V

[oldflagswanted]

some interesting commentary ???

Amazing price and certainly out of the league of most on this forum.
...
A collectible is worth only what someone is willing to pay.
...
Every collecting field has cycles. Generally the price trend over time is up
...
for any collecting field to survive, there have to be collectors
...
Our hobby had its beginnings during the war and is now over 60 years old.
...
as each tier of collector comes about, they become further removed
...
Civil war items are a bad comparison. The Civil war stuff is esoteric to most
...
You can see in any collecting field that there was a "golden age"
...
The rare will always hold a mystique. How many can say they have a DE
...
Richard V

Hello Richard:
Thanks for posting some interesting militaria collecting commentary.
Much to ponder therein. As for the EMA realized 3 piece DE price, I
believe it was a recent CG out of the woodwork vet purchase, that is
likewise how I obtained my rarest of all München II DE, so such things
can be found well below an auction high price point. Price problem
comes up when subsequent sales occure, as it is more than just what
a buyer is willing to pay, but also what a seller is willing to accept.
As for price trends going up, it is IMO due to money being worth less.
Regarding militaria collecting origins, tiers, esoteric stuff, and the so
called "golden age" of collecting, IMO such activities far pre-dates WW2.
In my own study of the 1870 Franco-Prussian War I found it interesting
that in Paris fake German militaria was being made and sold to the
unwashed as real - just one example of the militaria market at work
long before the 20th Century. Don't take any of this wrong, just IMO.
.............. OLDFLAGSWANTED ............

[Gary B]

Dear Bob,

A wonderful piece.

Gary B