Identification Flag

[Perry Floyd]

I just stumbled over this thread.
I had lunch today with an 87 year old retired Anglican Chaplain from the 3rd Army. He has one of these 'ID flags'. He said he traded packs of cigarettes for it in the Spring of 1946. He knows because he remembers where he was stationed when he got it. The Reverend said that "every day this little man came to the front of the officers' house and offered us 'war souviners'. The men were crazy for souviners and traded food for them-the germans were starving in those days and you could get anything for food or cigarettes."
He also said the troops burned swastika flags when they found them.

Thanks for sharing..
It still blows me away how people can deny these with so many vets bringing them back..

[Bob Coleman]

Perry-
The Two Arguements I Have Heard With Regards To These Flags Is The Issue Of Grommets, Which I Think By Now Has Been Proven To Be A Non Issue As Grommets Were Used In Headgear, Field Equipment And Flags. The Second Being Period Photographs Of The Flag. For One Thing, Not Every Item, No Matter How Common Would Be Found In The Most Available Photographs In Circulation. May Odd And Unusual Things Are Becoming More Accepted As Original Veteran's Photograph Albums Come In To The Public Arena. Also, There Is A Failure To Understand The Purpose Of This Flag. It Was An Identification Flag And Therefore, Tied To The Top Of A Vehicle. How Many Aerial Photographs Were Taken From Low Level Of German Military Vehicles And Then Released For Public Consumption? My Guess Is Zero. As In My Case, Many Old Time Credible Collectors Have Direct Purchased These Items From Vets. What Other Proof Is Required?
Bob






So Many Old Time Collectors Have Direct
Bob

[Gregory Koepp]

well, as many has said too, it's the item not the story. there are ALOT of heavy collectors waiting for proof as of: photo or paperwork, to come to light before they spend their cash on one. i beleave as does alot of collectors these were made right after the surender of Germany to I.D. there items, but were turned down and not used.

you really have to look at the item itself, and look at the condition of these......
ALL are brand new! like taken out of a box!???? if these were used then why are these in MINT condition??

greg

[Perry Floyd]

Mines not mint......

[bodes]

Mines not mint......

Nor is mine...In fact mine has a small tear and a spot on the white center which appears to have laid against something rusty....

[oldflagswanted]

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[Bob Coleman]

The Lack Of Logic In Some Of These Arguements Is Astounding To Me. In Late 1945-46, Millions Of Original Flags Were Available To Sell To The Gi's For Souvenirs. What Cloth Was Available Was Dearly Needed For Clothing For Displaced Germans. It is absurd to think that a "cottage Industry" Arose To Produce A Flag That Frankly, Few Collectors Today Want-even Original.

As To Condition, These Were Vehicle Flags And Therefore, Likely Stored In A Vehicle And Seldom, If Ever, Used. I Would Expect The Majority To Be In Excellent + Condition. Used And Abused Ones Would Have Been Discarded And Replaced By The Germans. With So Much Original Material Available To Vets In That Period For Nothing, Why Would They Bring Home An Old, Beat Up Rag.
To Each His Own. I Have Bought A Few Of These Over The Years Directly From Veterans And Never Had Any Desire To Retain One For My Collection. There Is Overwhelming First Owner Evidence And First Generation Collector Testimony To Validate These Pieces As Period. I Have Not Seen Or Heard Anything Credible To Sustain The Theory That These Are Post War Production.
Bob

[McCulloh]

Hmmmm.... In Sarajevo during the siege one could buy manufactured 'repro Ustacha badges as well as more current items-especially unit patchs. Same thing in Viet Nam. I know if I was starving and needed money for food I'd make whatever I could to survive and the swastika was banned in May, 1945.
I have also talked to vets-including my Uncle, who bought a few of their souviners at VFW conventions in the 1960s and these were made by Souval and other enterprising European firms.
Anyway, time to put this discussion to rest. I too await a photograph.

[Bob Coleman]

with all due respect, Sarajevo and Viet Nam were not destroyed financially as was Germany following the war. Further, I bought my first one of these as a small child in the mid 50's when reproductions enmasse were a future phenomenon. Even then, I bought mine for fifty cents. I also did not keep it very long as it was not a very interesting item. it was what a young lad could afford at the time. Do you really think someone could have made and distributed these things and made a profit with a sale price of that amount?

I agree that too much time has been spent on such an unimportant object, which really begs the question of why to reproduce in the first place,
Bob

[bodes]

Hmmmm.... In Sarajevo during the siege one could buy manufactured 'repro Ustacha badges as well as more current items-especially unit patchs. Same thing in Viet Nam. I know if I was starving and needed money for food I'd make whatever I could to survive and the swastika was banned in May, 1945.
I have also talked to vets-including my Uncle, who bought a few of their souviners at VFW conventions in the 1960s and these were made by Souval and other enterprising European firms.
Anyway, time to put this discussion to rest. I too await a photograph.

To make such a statement like that is absurd...Germany was utterly destroyed at the end of WW2....People were too busy looking for the necessities to survive from day to day....Food, water, shelter...For someone to be enterprising enough to set up a bogus flag business is utter nonsense....The idea makes me laugh It's that rediculous....Materials would've been near impossible to find....People would've been more apt to use any material to clothe themselves(my German neighbor made a dress out of a Nazi banner)....And why make them so big???....Wouldn't someone making these and selling these make as many as humanly possible...To make more money??? Why add grommets????Wouldn't brass be kind of a hard item to come by in post war Germany??? Just can't see the logic...

[oldflagswanted]

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[Gregory Koepp]

"As To Condition, These Were Vehicle Flags And Therefore, Likely Stored In A Vehicle And Seldom, If Ever, Used. I Would Expect The Majority To Be In Excellent + Condition. Used And Abused Ones Would Have Been Discarded And Replaced By The Germans."


what?

get for real, these were never used nor stored on ANY vehicle in germany!
anytime or anywhere! and you have to know that?
i ask anyone to contact any vehicle restoring company and see if they would use one on their tank,car,plane, or out house. also ask them where the storage box was for it inside the vehicles, i just worn you to get the phone away from your ear, because you'll hear him laughing for awhile!

ya i have to agree to let's get something more to prove good or bad...

greg

[oldflagswanted]

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[keifer kahn]

Just a side note,
Peter whammond of the collectors guild has a normal vehicle id flag that has just sold,But in the description at the bottom he writes that acccording to 1941 regulations the use of the swastika id flag was discontinued and they reverted to the balkan cross.
I dont know how much truth there is in this statement but perhaps Peter has some information that we dont have.

perhaps one of us could contact Peter and see if he is willing to provide a copy or point us in the right direction in regards to these regulations.

[Gregory Koepp]

i just e-mailed him, so will post what he has to show


greg