Gun show poll

[jbc98k]

I enjoy attending gun shows, Knob Creek being my favorite. Of course its a shoot\show but what the heck its still a blast. As for most of our (USA) gun laws about the only good they do is put limits on law abiding good people. Background checks make sence but the assault weapon ban and like laws are nuts. Its been stated before but I agree with the comment that the bad guys will get weapons no matter what the law is.

[Josh Beckett]

The 1934 NFA was one of the worst gun laws, all it did was create a 200 dollar tax on all MGs.

[101combatvet]

morons

"I love Hillary R. Clinton, and will support anything she says!"

[Josh Beckett]

Heil Hillary!!!!!!!

[SurvivingPanzer]

I subscribe to the slippery slope doctrine. Give politicians an inch and they will take a yard. Like when they started to outlaw smoking. Now in some places in CA it is illegal to smoke on beaches, public places, parks, etc.

[Josh Beckett]

I dont think that the recent tragedy at Vtech will call for gun control, but we gun owners should never let our guard down. We need to be vigilant.

[fdodge]

The last choice on this poll is a joke, right?

[Matt Weber]

Boy, who dug up this old poll? Yes, the last answer was a joke, but obviously 8 people here voted for it!

Matt

[james m]

I have attended and set up at gun shows for many years and I thought I'd take the time to share some thoughts and correct some misconceptions particularly from our non US participants:
First Off: Contrary to what some of you may believe particularly after reading about gun shows in the "mainstream" new media they are Highly regulated both at the Federal and State level.
I reside in Arizona and as many know it is a gun owner friendly State without the draconian regulation found in other States. I will use the Crossroads of America gun show as an example as it's the largest(1500 tables) show in the State and held 5 times a year. The BATFE has at least 30 undercover agents working this show and looking for violations. One of the most prominent arrests that has made recently was of two Mexican police officials trying to buy guns illegally. I have talked to the promoter and,off the record with at least one agent. They both maintain that Mexicans buying guns for the gangs or illegal narcotics trade is rare at a gun show. The reason is that they are expensive in that venue and it's difficult to impossible to buy fully automatic weapons. There are full autos for sale but an AK47 for example,which would have to be a federally registered gun, will set you back over $10,000 and requires an extensive State and Federal background check in order to complete the purchase. Most full autos like AK47s*,RPGs, hand grenades and other weapons of this type are smuggled into Mexico by boat from the Middle Eastern countries. Mexico has thousands of miles of coastline that's virtually unguarded.
All of the above is contrary to what you've been fed through the "mainstrean" new media since it's in the best interest of certain factions to have you believe otherwise. The Arizona police are also a constant presence at this gunshow though their representatives are usually in uniform. Wayne LaPierre,the head of the NRA, nailed a CNN reporter on the air awhile back for repeating some of the outright lies about gun being smuggled into Mexico from the US. While some smuggling from the US occurs the numbers reported were gross exaggerations.
The vast majority of items for sale at gunshow are sporting rifles and shotguns along with tactical pistols and semi-automatic rifles. The was a tremendous run on tactical weapons of all varieties until recently for reasons I won't go into here but this has largely subsided. To answer another point: Any private individual selling at a gun show has to adhere to the laws of their State and that is no different here in Arizona. Additionally; If you attepmt to sell regularly at gun shows you can and will be arrested and charged with being a gun dealer without a license.
These tactical rifles are generally AK47 and M16 lookalikes since they operate in semi-automatic mode only.
The gun club I belong to has around 30 different full auto firearms that can be rented by the public. Since Arizona is a very popular tourist destination we get a lot of visitors from Europe and Asia and they like to shoot guns. I don't know how many times I had a foreigner tell me how fortunate we are to be able to do this on a regular basis.
So I guess to sum this up there is NO gun show loophole as some would have you believe. Actually; gun shows really allow the authorities to observe exactly what is going on at any given time.
If anyone on this forum doubts this let me know if and when you'll be in Arizona and I'll be glad to walk around a gun show with you so you can point out any violations of law that are occurring. I made this offer to John McCain"Build the darn fence",the original gun show loophole advocate, several years ago and he hung the phone up on me. To date and to the best of my knowledge he has never attended a gun show.
*The reason that we know the majority of the AK47s that turn up in Mexico came from elsewhere is full automatic AKs are very rare here. They were manufactured and available far too late to have been registered and therefore transferrable.
Jim

[james m]

I meant to include something above and since it's past the point where I can edit my previous post I'll state it here:
If anyone has any questions inre. to gunshows or the laws in this Country regarding firearms ownship feel free to ask. I see and hear the mis-information that's presented in the "mainstream" news media on a daily basis partially through ignorance and partially though having their own agenda and I'll do the best I can to set the record straight with factual information.
Jim

[Axel Parabellum]

I definitely hear everyone about the last hiliary choice. Its pretty funny.
But what I cant beleive is 8 actual members voted for choices 6 & 7!!!

[Josh Beckett]

I have attended and set up at gun shows for many years and I thought I'd take the time to share some thoughts and correct some misconceptions particularly from our non US participants:
First Off: Contrary to what some of you may believe particularly after reading about gun shows in the "mainstream" new media they are Highly regulated both at the Federal and State level.
I reside in Arizona and as many know it is a gun owner friendly State without the draconian regulation found in other States. I will use the Crossroads of America gun show as an example as it's the largest(1500 tables) show in the State and held 5 times a year. The BATFE has at least 30 undercover agents working this show and looking for violations. One of the most prominent arrests that has made recently was of two Mexican police officials trying to buy guns illegally. I have talked to the promoter and,off the record with at least one agent. They both maintain that Mexicans buying guns for the gangs or illegal narcotics trade is rare at a gun show. The reason is that they are expensive in that venue and it's difficult to impossible to buy fully automatic weapons. There are full autos for sale but an AK47 for example,which would have to be a federally registered gun, will set you back over $10,000 and requires an extensive State and Federal background check in order to complete the purchase. Most full autos like AK47s*,RPGs, hand grenades and other weapons of this type are smuggled into Mexico by boat from the Middle Eastern countries. Mexico has thousands of miles of coastline that's virtually unguarded.
All of the above is contrary to what you've been fed through the "mainstrean" new media since it's in the best interest of certain factions to have you believe otherwise. The Arizona police are also a constant presence at this gunshow though their representatives are usually in uniform. Wayne LaPierre,the head of the NRA, nailed a CNN reporter on the air awhile back for repeating some of the outright lies about gun being smuggled into Mexico from the US. While some smuggling from the US occurs the numbers reported were gross exaggerations.
The vast majority of items for sale at gunshow are sporting rifles and shotguns along with tactical pistols and semi-automatic rifles. The was a tremendous run on tactical weapons of all varieties until recently for reasons I won't go into here but this has largely subsided. To answer another point: Any private individual selling at a gun show has to adhere to the laws of their State and that is no different here in Arizona. Additionally; If you attepmt to sell regularly at gun shows you can and will be arrested and charged with being a gun dealer without a license.
These tactical rifles are generally AK47 and M16 lookalikes since they operate in semi-automatic mode only.
The gun club I belong to has around 30 different full auto firearms that can be rented by the public. Since Arizona is a very popular tourist destination we get a lot of visitors from Europe and Asia and they like to shoot guns. I don't know how many times I had a foreigner tell me how fortunate we are to be able to do this on a regular basis.
So I guess to sum this up there is NO gun show loophole as some would have you believe. Actually; gun shows really allow the authorities to observe exactly what is going on at any given time.
If anyone on this forum doubts this let me know if and when you'll be in Arizona and I'll be glad to walk around a gun show with you so you can point out any violations of law that are occurring. I made this offer to John McCain"Build the darn fence",the original gun show loophole advocate, several years ago and he hung the phone up on me. To date and to the best of my knowledge he has never attended a gun show.
*The reason that we know the majority of the AK47s that turn up in Mexico came from elsewhere is full automatic AKs are very rare here. They were manufactured and available far too late to have been registered and therefore transferrable.
Jim

Some people will also talk about how easy it is to convert a semi auto AK and AR into a MG. It can be done, but not safely unless you know what you are doing. If one were to do it safely it would require alot of drilling and swapping parts out. Not something that an idiot cartel member would know. Im willing to make a WAG and say that most of these guns come from the Mexican military or other militaries south of the border.

[james m]

I have a gunsmith friend who built 1000 blank firing full auto AK47 training rifles for the military on contract a couple of years ago. He started with Romanian AK kits and semi-auto receivers of course. You are correct in that it isn't a trivial task to build one of these even when you know what you are doing. I observed the construction steps and can state this from first hand experience. I won't go into the specific construction details for obvious reasons.
The full auto build complexity is precisely the reason the BATFE let all these kits be imported for so many years. Additionally; Any AK that someone buys that was built from an imported kit has had the internal full auto parts discarded and replaced with US compliant semi-auto parts. To do otherwise could land the builder in jail.
Here is a Hungarian AMD65 I had built as a registered SBR a few years back since it's impossible to get a full auto version:
Jim


Jim

[Josh Beckett]

Thats a nice one!!!

If you know how a semi auto works and how a full auto works, it should be easy as pie to convert one, but most of the criminal element are too stupid to stay out of prison, let alone figure out how a gun works, if it malfunctions they just throw it away and get another. Some people will tell you to shave such and such to make it full auto, well thats a good way to get the gun to fire out of battery under uncontrollable full auto fire which is something one would really not want.

[fdodge]

Boy, who dug up this old poll? Yes, the last answer was a joke, but obviously 8 people here voted for it!

Now it's 9!