MP43/1 zf4 sniper

[Nigromontanus]

Rereading, I have commented twice on this thread, giving about the same info. I either write or drink too much. However, as stated I cannot rule out that the mount on 2386a is originally applied. The scope with "Kurzpatrone" is a fake IMO.

[sen24]

Yes I’d like to reiterate that I know the scope has fake “Kurz” marking on a real wartime zf4. It was purchased by a notorious Czech dealer who has made many fake scopes out there “Kurz” “bzz” and “fg42”. But since a real “Kurz” scope is very rare and I got it for regular zf4 price, I thought it looked good enough for display on this rifle and I continued my quest for an original.

[Petroleum 1]

Here is something interesting...any comments on that scope mount??

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/833842251

[bodes]

Here is something interesting...any comments on that scope mount??

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/833842251

Looks like it's been JB welded to the receiver....Bodes

[sen24]

I saw this auction and want to say this is NOT my rifle pictured in this thread. But what is interesting.. the rail, if you look closely, has the same construction with three struts that independently touch the receiver. It is not JB welded. It is gas welded like mine, and it is also overblued, like mine. I don’t have the serial number of this rifle but it is an earlier MP43/1 with scope mount on top of rear right. The rail itself looks very similar to mine in construction. So either someone post war got ahold of Atleast 2! early , very clean MP43/1s and decided to put these ZF4 rails and overblued both in the same way or there is some other history here. If the serial numbers turn out to be close to mine “2836a” that would be more evidence that this came from a lot.

[sen24]

If anyone gets a hold of the seller and can get the serial number it would be greatly appreciated. I have been trying.

[bodes]

I saw this auction and want to say this is NOT my rifle pictured in this thread. But what is interesting.. the rail, if you look closely, has the same construction with three struts that independently touch the receiver. It is not JB welded. It is gas welded like mine, and it is also overblued, like mine. I don’t have the serial number of this rifle but it is an earlier MP43/1 with scope mount on top of rear right. The rail itself looks very similar to mine in construction. So either someone post war got ahold of Atleast 2! early , very clean MP43/1s and decided to put these ZF4 rails and overblued both in the same way or there is some other history here. If the serial numbers turn out to be close to mine “2836a” that would be more evidence that this came from a lot.

Than to me, the lighting on the one in the auction is deceptive.....Rail attachment doesn't appear the same as others shown in this thread....Bodes

[bodes]

So either someone post war got ahold of Atleast 2! early , very clean MP43/1s and decided to put these ZF4 rails and overblued both in the same way or there is some other history here. If the serial numbers turn out to be close to mine “2836a” that would be more evidence that this came from a lot.

Have you thought of post war military use?.....Although not really a practical adaptation to a scoped weapon, the MP43 (and the G/K 43's along with the ZF4 scope system) did go on to be used by countries such as Czechoslovakia....Bodes

[sen24]

Have you thought of post war military use?.....Although not really a practical adaptation to a scoped weapon, the MP43 (and the G/K 43's along with the ZF4 scope system) did go on to be used by countries such as Czechoslovakia....Bodes

Well, at least with my rifle, it has no signs of being reissued postwar, is matching, in excellent almost unused condition and was a vet bringback. The rail is overblued with what appears to be its original bluing. There are been a lot of debate as whether the zf4 rail was done postwar or was part of a wartime trials. The bulk of the contention was that all authentic ZF4 rail were of the 1 or 2 piece spot welded type we see in numerous examples. Others have said that different mount types were attempted on these early MP43/1s in order try different mounting methods that could decrease vibrations that were affecting the usefulness of using the Sturmgewehr with the ZF4 scope. If another rifle could be found with the same setup and especially one in the same serial number range, I think it would go a long way in showing that this was more than a post war fantasy piece.

[sen24]

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A image showing the design of the rail on my rifle and the rifle listed.. I brightened the image so you can see that it has the same arches .. Im hoping to get higher res photos from the seller soon.

[Petroleum 1]

The serial number is 149 with a letter after it maybe a "c"

[bodes]

Well, at least with my rifle, it has no signs of being reissued postwar, is matching, in excellent almost unused condition and was a vet bringback. The rail is overblued with what appears to be its original bluing. There are been a lot of debate as whether the zf4 rail was done postwar or was part of a wartime trials. The bulk of the contention was that all authentic ZF4 rail were of the 1 or 2 piece spot welded type we see in numerous examples. Others have said that different mount types were attempted on these early MP43/1s in order try different mounting methods that could decrease vibrations that were affecting the usefulness of using the Sturmgewehr with the ZF4 scope. If another rifle could be found with the same setup and especially one in the same serial number range, I think it would go a long way in showing that this was more than a post war fantasy piece.

I suspect the statement above (post #80) was than an attempt at sarcasm, and I missed it...Bodes

[Nigromontanus]

SN is 149 b.

[wandering38]

<blockquote class="imgur-embed-pub" lang="en" data-id="a/nXoCNbE"><a href="//imgur.com/a/nXoCNbE"></a></blockquote><script async src="//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

A image showing the design of the rail on my rifle and the rifle listed.. I brightened the image so you can see that it has the same arches .. Im hoping to get higher res photos from the seller soon.

Bodes is right - the rails on sen24’s rifle and the kit in the auction are NOT the same. For one thing the two arches are clearly evident on sen24’s rail, but are at the least not visible (and probably not present) on the auction example. Secondly, sen24’s rifle is welded very deliberately in three locations on the “feet” separated by the two “arches”; whereas on the auction example there are only two “weld” points which are EXTREMELY sloppy, to the point that they almost look squished rather than beaded... perhaps not welded at all? It looks more like a badly-done low-temp solder job to me. Solder will clump & squish this way, but I’ve never seen weld to this. Thirdly, and most damning IMO, is the rail notch location on the auction example: It is in an entirely different location, with an entirely different profile, different width, and different depth! I honestly wonder if a mount would even attach correctly to this rail (assuming sen24’s rail is the correct notch profile). As a longtime collector of German rifles and snipers, I’ve seen it’s always the details like these that fakers goof. Setting aside the drastic physical differences in the two rails, the serial numbers are SO widely apart (different letter block, each letter block being 10,000 guns) it is pretty clear these two are not part of some batch. This is strong evidence against the rail in the auction being authentic. I’m afraid we are looking at another nice item ruined by chicanery.

[Jeff V]

I have to agree with Wandering38.