MP43/1 zf4 sniper

[sen24]

I have always had an obsession with the sturmgewehr family of guns. I wanted to show a few from my collection and give my impressions. Here is a MP43/1 built in late 1943. It has a zf4 rail on the right side of the receiver. I have had this rifle looked over by a number of experts and authors and the consensus is that it is authentic. It was built for the MP43/1 sniper trials that took place between Oct 43 to Feb 44.

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It is known that 21 rifles were tested by the Infanterieschule with ZF4s to assess the potential of using the MP as a sniper rifle and possibly even replacing the k98 and G43 in the role. There were 3 firing trials that took place. The first in October 43 with a single rifle. It proved a useless platform for sniping with a very wide dispersion. It was thought the problem lay in the mount/rail design that could be causing excessive vibrations.
The next trial took place on Jan 6 1944 with 10 rifles with custom made rails and mounts developed by WaPrüf2 to ascertain if the vibrations were the source of the wide dispersion. This rifle is believed to be from that trial.

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After the trial it was reported in a letter from In2 to the GendInf that although the results were better the dispersion was still too great. A third and final firing trial was ordered on Feb 21 44, and with the results still unsatisfactory, the trials were stopped and the MP would not be further tested as a sniper rifle.
Late war ZF4 railed sturmgewehrs were likely intended to be used with the Vampir infrared scope.

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This MP43/1 is in extremely good condition. All matching and unmessed with. The bore looks brand new and it was obviously never issued. It was captured after the war and brought to canada where it sat in a safe for many years. Of 440,000 sturmgewehrs built, only roughly 14-20k were MP43/1s. These were the first rifles built and most were urgently delivered to the troops. Most were lost in battle and the ones that survived usually have seen considerable action.

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Having an MP43/1 in this condition lets one appreciate the refinements of the first sturmgewehrs. The build and quality is much higher compared to the utilitarian late war rifles as the war went from bad to worse (I will do a side by side comparison with a late war StG44 later) Although the rifle has been deemed authentic, the scope's authenticity has yet to be determined as it was found after I acquired the rifle. This rifle also has the ZF41 scope mount with notch of the rear sight base.

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The MP43/1 has many differences from its brothers (MP43, MP44, StG44) The most obvious is the thicker unstepped barrel, the larger front sight and long 1" barrel nut. The front sight hood is smaller than the later models and more like a k98s. The gas plug does not have a hole through the block to uses a tool to turn it open. The barrels were also numbered to the rifle, a practice that was quickly discontinued.

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The scope is marked "Kurz Patrone" and has a threaded ocular lens that allows a custom made long metal sun/rain shield to be screwed in flushly with the ZF4. While I have have yet to get confirmation on the scope, I think it makes a good companion to the rifle while I find absolute proven original. Anyone?

<a href="https://ibb.co/fv7rfa"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/dNWHLa/mp431_sniper_07.jpg" alt="mp431_sniper_07" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>image bbcode</a><br />

When I get the time, I want to post some pictures of the MP43/1 in comparison to a Sauer StG44 and a Haneal MP44 I have. I think theres some interesting differences in the production methods, details and even the feel of each weapon. I have owned 6 of these guns and handled quite a few but I am also aware I dont know everything about these weapons. Thats why theres the forum. Plus I get an excuse for taking pictures of them.
sk

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[djpool]

I'm certainly no weapons guy but I've always loved the look of the MP43/44s!😻

[me6_130]

They look really nice. I've always loved these since I first saw them in a Tintin book when I was a kid. It was incredible to see him downing a Mosquito. I wish I had one...

Carles

[Promo]

Is this rifle still live and selective fire? And is it in Canada or in the US? Would you mind posting some better pictures of the scope rail? And is the mount serialized to the rifle?
Aside of that: a very nice and great piece! Congratulations to it!

[michaelangelo]

MP43/1 Production

'C' series guns of the MP43/1 are known to exist. The production is somewhere in the 23,000 area. I have personally seen 147c.

Michaelangelo

[Alan Smith]

Here is mine: 356c.

[Alan Smith]

No scope mount is present on the rear sight base of 356c.

BTW: If anyone recognizes these photos, you may have seen them before in the public domain. These are the prior owner's photos and he posted them lots of places.

[sen24]

Michaelangelo
Yes you are right. I realized I misspoke about the number of mp43/1 manufactured was more to the tune of 24k. Still a small number compared to the whole. And I also realized I forgot pics of the rail. Doh. You can see closeup pictures of it on Claus's MP44 website. Instead of spot welding as is usually seen this rail has been welded which at first led me to be sceptical since I have only seen fantasy pieces this way. But It was explained to me by a well known author of the Sturmgewehr rifles that the 2nd firing trial was a experimentation of different rail and mount combos to try to iron out the vibration issue. You can see by the design that it was made to only touch the receiver at 3 contact points which appears to be an attempt to address this issue (although Claus states 2 on his website) and while it fits a usual zf4 mount, it is obviously built for a different unknown mount and the location and design locking notch is not typical. The rail construction and welds themself are period. Most of the info about what these custom rail and mounts used for the trial have been lost but hopefully more info or photos can be found. Claus also mentioned that unique experimental zf4 mounts have been found that do not work win the g43 as they are too low and may be part of that program. the mount is not numbered to it and is not original to the rifle. It is legal and goes bang. I'll try to get some pics.

[John Hodgin]

Outstanding and magnificent! Many thanks for sharing!

[me6_130]

Would this one be an MP43/1?

Carles

[sen24]

That photo is an early MP43/1 with a custom Mp43 stepped barrel. This was the single rifle used in the first firing trial at the Infanteriesschule in October 43. Notice the experimental mount. This was not a successful test and prompted the second to test to isolate the source of the vibrations and the wide dispersion.
Heres some pics of the rail. Notice there are three struts that bridge the rail to the receiver. There is also some unique stamps on the rail itself. A star or sunburst not unlike the one found of bcd G43s. Also a script letter "a." And on the side a very tiny script "X" Also notice the two small notches on the top of the right side of the rail. Not sure what those were for but it could possibly be something with the custom mount that went with this rifle.

<a href="https://ibb.co/g0hovk"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/krBgFk/rail_02.jpg" alt="rail_02" border="0"></a>

<a href="https://ibb.co/iUOp1Q"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/d5JNMQ/rail_03.jpg" alt="rail_03" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>upload images</a><br />

And the scope with the screw in metal rain shield. Jury is out on this one. Be curious if anyone has seen anything like this.

<a href="https://ibb.co/eHMTT5"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/kL1j1Q/scope_01.jpg" alt="scope_01" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/kWptvk"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/n3PRFk/scope_02.jpg" alt="scope_02" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>to upload photos</a><br />

It has a threaded ocular lens like this experiment scope I have that is known to be original.

<a href="https://ibb.co/dY4Xo5"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/jhi3vk/rain_shield.jpg" alt="rain_shield" border="0"></a>
<a href="https://ibb.co/iutggQ"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/hci3vk/fg.jpg" alt="fg" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>bulk image upload</a><br />

[Alan Smith]

Do you know the NFA registration history for MP43/I #2836a? Just wondering how far back you are able to trace the known provenance of the rifle (and/or whether, by chance, the scope or mount are noted on any of the old registration papers - as sometimes happened with noteworthy features).

[sen24]

Good idea but this gun does not reside in the USA. The only informative I have is that a Canadian officer brought it back in 45 and there's small initials on the stock. I was told that it was untouched and the rail there from day one. But searching for info is part of the reason for posting this. I have owned a fair number of German firearms and it looks correct and unmessed with. Even so I'm a skeptical collector but with anything like this it's a case of what you chose to believe since there's no photographic evidence. But the people I've showed this to I hold in high regard in the field and there seems to be a consensus that it is period.

[Leper]

That photo is an early MP43/1 with a custom Mp43 stepped barrel/>

It is actually an M Kb 42(H) with a closed bolt pistol grip and mp production bbl. I have seen an original M Kb 42(H) receiver marked MP 43/1 though.

[sen24]

Comparison pics of the early MP43/1 built by Hanael in 1943 and a Stg44 by Sauer in 1945. That rifle is all matching. It is "a L" block and made in the last weeks of the war. It probably never left the factory when it was "liberated" and looks right off the assembly line.

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I really like late war german weapons. The endless number of mismatch blued and phosphate parts on very late StGs and MPs make them have a more striking utiltarian look of the last desperate months of the war. .
Sauer built around 55,000 of the 440,000 sturmgewehr and I consider them to be the best at the end of the war. There are some unique differences between it and the MP43/1 that I wouldnt have known without holding them.

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The biggest surprise for me is the weight as I have never read about any large weight variation between sturmgewehr types. The MP43/1 weighs in empty without scope at 4.7 kilos or 10.36 lbs. Of course the rail and heavier barrel mean heavier gun. Ive weighed 5 other rifles most mid war MP43 and MP44s and empty they are pretty consistent 4.6 kilos or 10.15 lbs give or take.
The Sauer Stg44 comes in empty at 4.43 kilos or 9.76lbs which is quite lighter and you can feel it picking it up. There are so many varieties of latewar guns that its hard to find consistencies and guns a few serial numbers away can look completely different. But I would be interested to know if there are any other late war Sauer gun owner who can share any info.

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This rifle has the simplified front sight without threads and nut. The handguard has 6 holes instead of the usual 4 and is clear phosphate along with the lower trigger group. The rest is blued. The bluing is a richer dark blue than I have seen on early to mid war guns and it is almost iridescent at certain angles. At some places it has been applied roughly.

<a href="https://ibb.co/iRU1WQ"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/dvhc5k/mp431_stg44_04.jpg" alt="mp431_stg44_04" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>image cdn free</a><br />

The stock is not the Einheitskolben smaller stock usually seen on rifles from mid-44 till the end. It is a large "old style" style buttstock and original to this rifle. There is a consistency of late war Sauers having the larger paddle stocks for some reason.. I have read that these may be leftover stock. If you compare the buttstocks of the MP43/1 and the StG44 they seem to actual have a different shape with the Sauer having a more pronounced hump and the MP43/1 having a longer bottom tailend. The MP43/1 is consistent with what I have seen of early buttstock designs.


Mechanically both guns have clean trigger breaks and the action moves equally smooth, although the StG44 has more of a metal against metal sound. Sturmgewehrs have a unique sound when they fire with that big bolt and carrier moving back and forth.
Behind the trigger they are truly the same gun. The appearance may have become rougher but the rifle remained effective and safe to the user until the end of the war.

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Next I thought it interesting to compare 2 very late war sturmgewehrs. The Stg44 Sauer and MP44 Haneal both from the last weeks of the war.

<a href="https://ibb.co/n2cukk"><img src="https://preview.ibb.co/kU1LQk/STG_MP44.jpg" alt="STG_MP44" border="0"></a><br /><a target='_blank' href='https://imgbb.com/'>how to upload images to the internet</a><br />