rare Doppeltrommel for MG13 (PT13)

[bergler]

Hello, not too many of those around.....a rare saddle drum for the MG13, called Patronentrommel 13. It is quite unusual as one can easily see, asymetric to fit the MG13. Manufacturer is HASAG, with Army proof (WaA) on the part that goes into the gun.
I have not seen one in natura before. I kile it a lot, very uncommon and Special.

Any comments and more Information gratefully welcome.

[bergler]

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[bergler]

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[bergler]

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[pitfighter]

Brilliant find - I have seen two or three on this site - they are quite rare.

I sold my MG13 set-up, but was looking for one of these for some time.

Nice find.

[bergler]

can anybody give me a Price indication? Would like to know where we are with a drum like this. Never seen one for sale myself. Thnaks!

[bmg17a1]

Pic of an MG13 drum that I use with a Portugese MG13. Cost was about $1000US when I bought it last year. Often they sell for twice that and more when they make it to the market.
The drum in the post below is in what I would consider to be rough exterior condition with evident rusting areas and heavy blemishes. In the US it might bring $1000. It is difficult to tell if it will clean up some, but the corrosion is evident. Also, there is no information about the internals and whether it is functional.

[bergler]

Hi, ok, more specific. The interior is in ful working condition. There is no deep rust on it, bits of Surface rust. The Brown/yellow spots are mud/dirt that sticks on the Piece like cement. Not too easy to remove.

Any more ideas?

[nordbaden]

I paid for my pt 13 1500 Euro

Same Or better condition than pt13 from bmg17a1

[David H]

Interesting, they are uncommon and the prices vary wildly, the last two I was offered the other year were £400 for both, one did not have a handle and a little more pitting, the other had a similar amount of pitting to the one shown, I decided to hold out for a better one and did not get them. I love my MG13 and all the bits that go with it.
As with all collecting it all depends on how much somebody wants one.

[bmg17a1]

>The interior is in ful working condition. There is no deep rust on it, bits of Surface rust. The Brown/yellow spots are mud/dirt that sticks on the Piece like cement. Not too easy to remove.<

The surface of the drum appears to be covered with some sort of paint or coating. The finish of the drum is far from original in texture or color. Can you tell what the coating is on the drum? Compare the finish of your drum to the finish, color and texture of the drum mounted on the MG13 below......
Because of the strange finish and other blemishes on the metal of the drum, the value will suffer significantly. It is not at all evident that the finish can be improved very much from what is visible in the pics or whether the coating hides more damage to the finish and to the metal. Too much unknown about this aspect to value it.
So, since the value is not easy to estimate from the pics, another way to try and determine what it is worth is to ask for offers. What are posters willing to pay for it?

[bergler]

Well, I definately can not tell the differences of the Surface of your drum to mine due to the pics you posted.....but what I know for 100% is that the texture, paint and all else on the Piece posted initially is original german of WW2 times. There is no overpaint or else. Why I can say this is because this Piece was found very recently deep down in a lake, with other things from WW2. As I noted before, the Brown spots are remains of mud, where it spent the last 70 years, and some of it is quite solid. I do not know what makes you sure that there is an overpaint. There might be differences in finish and texture due to manufacturer or year of production. But I get yr Point, it is difficult to determine the value without Holding it in Hand and see the Details. But, again, be assured that even this Piece is 100% original in what you see, even if it might differ from the one you have.
Thank you for yr efforts. And.....you seem to have an awesome collection there!

>The interior is in ful working condition. There is no deep rust on it, bits of Surface rust. The Brown/yellow spots are mud/dirt that sticks on the Piece like cement. Not too easy to remove.<

The surface of the drum appears to be covered with some sort of paint or coating. The finish of the drum is far from original in texture or color. Can you tell what the coating is on the drum? Compare the finish of your drum to the finish, color and texture of the drum mounted on the MG13 below......
Because of the strange finish and other blemishes on the metal of the drum, the value will suffer significantly. It is not at all evident that the finish can be improved very much from what is visible in the pics or whether the coating hides more damage to the finish and to the metal. Too much unknown about this aspect to value it.
So, since the value is not easy to estimate from the pics, another way to try and determine what it is worth is to ask for offers. What are posters willing to pay for it?

[bmg17a1]

bergler writes:Well, I definately can not tell the differences of the Surface of your drum to mine due to the pics you posted.....but what I know for 100% is that the texture, paint and all else on the Piece posted initially is original german of WW2 times. There might be differences in finish and texture due to manufacturer or year of production.

Here is a pic of the drum that is shown on the MG13 in previous post. Although I have only seen about ten of these drums over the years, the drum pictured here is exactly what they all look like. They are just as uniform in production as the MG15 drums with minor variations in material for the handles, slightly different color of the bluing depending on when it was made, but smooth metal surface, and blued smooth finish is how they were made. Having handled many, many MG15 drums, there were none that exhibited the finish like the finish on your drum. I would very suchlike tokno what happened to it.
I don't doubt that the finish on your drum is original, but something has happened to it since it was manufactured and the finish is no longer anything like a production drum. It would not have been manufactured with the coarse finish that is evident on the surface.
I could be wrong about this, but I have never seen any metal German small arms accessories that had such a coarse finish as manufactured. It would be interesting to see and handle your drum to try and determine what happened to it. My interest here is to try and understand what happened to your drum, so it is nothing personal. Also, you expressed an interest in selling it and I know several persons in the US who might be interested, so I would like to be able to understand it.
Thanks for the kind words about my collection. I enjoy it immensely and enjoy learning about the guns and the accessories.

[bergler]

Hello, I am very much in and interested myself to figure out new things. I will make some more detailed pics tonight, so we can have another proper look.
One Thing upfront.....the texture and Surface finish will be different, you are for sure right about this. The reason therefore might and will most probably be in the fact that this Piece has spent 70+ years packed in mud, deep down. I have seen many things that have spent lots of time in mud, and this does Change definately colour and appearance. The blueing Looks much darker, the Surface is rough due to small particles that stick on the metal, and some of the mud is very difficult to remove because it becomes like cement in a certain way. This Piece will clean up quite a bit better with more time spent on it, but it will never be like yours again. It will always have a rougher touch and darker taint. I have spent many hrs on "restoring" different things from the lake, and things will be very nice again, but you can always see (and recognise once you have had yr nose there) a definite difference.
Will send more pics later tonight. And spend some more time removing mud on some places so we can see the diference.
Again, thanks for yr efforts. I appreciate this and am always eager to broaden my Horizont.

One more question regarding MG13. As far as I know, many (most?) went to Portugal and were re-imported. The Wehrmacht used it as well in small numbers, right? More detailed question......do you know of a contract for the hungarian army, or would they have used the unwanted Wehrmacht issued MGs? I am asking this because I have seen the MG13 used within the hungarian army.

[me6_130]

Gentlemen,

If no inconveniance, I will file the present information in my data base. I only have 3 PT13 filed, so any futher info is welcome.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=823057


Spain did get MG13s during the Spanish Civil War and I have found much equipment and accesories but no news of PT13s used in Spain, nor photografic evidence.

Carles