1916 Luger oddity

[stevezz1]

Has anyone out there in Luger land seen one like this before..........?
I was offered this yesterday
It is a DWM 1916 all matching.
Litteral translation of the inscription is 'To the Memory of my Serving Time'.
What would 'UFFZ' stand for.....?
If it is a true presentation piece i would have thought the recipients full name would be inscribed, not just initials.....?
This reminds me of the 'Himmler' Luger that was shown a while ago......
I think maybe this one has been refinished and tarted-up, but then why would someone go to all that trouble..?
Any ideas........Fantasy....?
All comments gratefully recieved.
Steve.

[stevezz1]

Just recieved a phone call from the seller.
He was going to buy it from a third party but has come to the conclusion that it is super-bad.............
I must agree.........

[Bill Grist]

Thumbs down

Just recieved a phone call from the seller.
He was going to buy it from a third party but has come to the conclusion that it is super-bad.............
I must agree.........

[Edelweiss]

One or two clues on the reasons of this "super-bad conclusion" ?

[Bill Grist]

Luger

One or two clues on the reasons of this "super-bad conclusion" ?

It seems to be refinished, the straw parts have been re-strawed, and the swastika emblem seems to be taken from a SS or SA dagger handle..There are fakers here in the USA that have been doing the same thing, with middle of the road lugers, IE: engraving them with presentation mofets, or oak leafs, or unit markings, and refinishing them, to up the $ cost of a average luger, so a novice collector or someone that does not do his homework will jump on it, and the faker makes 3 times the price of a adverage luger..My thoughts.. BILL

[Ostmark]

In the text is a mistake


Look at the spelling mistake "Dientzeit" -> correct Dienstzeit

[Edelweiss]

Doch, richtig. Seems that the guy wasn't even able to copy the title of a photo album.
But I have to admit that the rest looked quite convincing to me ; I thought, for example, that some parts of the gun may have been gold plated...
Thanks for the precisions, Bill. I guess that the lettering also plays a role here...

[Theodor]

Maybe he means Dentist time? Wow, lots of bad teeth! ...or Dietzeit, then he must be the real slim Uffz...

[GWA]

Misspelling aside, an Imperial army P08 that endured continued use through the Weimar period and then into the Third Reich would almost certainly have a Weimar property mark .."1920". It would also show a bit of wear which this one doesn't.

Further, I would imagine that the Wehrmacht, like most armies, frowned on soldiers marking up the government's property. Mr Grist has it right, it's as phony as a three dollar bill.

[Edelweiss]

Misspelling aside, an Imperial army P08 that endured continued use through the Weimar period and then into the Third Reich would almost certainly have a Weimar property mark .."1920". It would also show a bit of wear which this one doesn't.

It's far to be always the case for the "1920" mark, especially if the gun was issued to the guy prior to 1920 ; and about possible third reich waffenamts, they were applied only if the gun was revised in an arsenal. About the condition you make your point, but I guess such a gun may have been reblued, gold plated and engraved at the end of his Dienstzeit.

A real pity, as original untouched, all matching (!) Imperial Lügers are not jumping in the countryside by bunchs of 10 nowadays ; these fakers really piss me off !

[GWA]

Mr Edelweiss, I believe that the property mark was applied to all weapons in the inventory. This would include pistols, Seitengewehr, rifles, machine guns, etc. The only exception might have been an officer's pistol as these were owned by the individual.

[Gene]

UFFZ is the abbreviation for Unteroffizier, equal to a Corporal.

[Edelweiss]

Mr Edelweiss, I believe that the property mark was applied to all weapons in the inventory.

Absolutely right, Mr GWA. I meant that it was "far to be always the case" for WWI pistols still used is the 30s and during WWII. Moreover, if such a "presentation gun" was offered to someone to be kept as a souvenir for his time in the army, I believe that one wouldn't take a gun "in the inventory".

[stevezz1]

In the text is a mistake


Look at the spelling mistake "Dientzeit" -> correct Dienstzeit

Correct Ostmark, Full marks to you..............

Bill is also spot on, the small parts have been re-strawed, badly, and the whole weapon refinished, again badly. Corners have been rounded over and it is totaly the wrong colour/patina.

The seller is in America, the asking price was $3,000.........

Steve.

By 'super-bad' i meant bad, not bad as in good...............i think.

[Ostmark]

I will give the seller a lesson in german ...$3000 for an hour