Colt revolver identification. Please help!

[Igazsag]

My friend found this Colt revolver in Ardennes a few years ago. I got from him today.
I'm not an Colt expert.
Please help me which type is it?
Cal.38
It was an 1917M or new Service modell or other? All is similar me.
Which type grips was on this revolver? Please attach a photo about these grips! Many thanks for all help!

[james m]

You have what appears to be a Colt 1917 Army revolver. These were produced primarily during WW 1 as a supplement to the Colt 1911 auto pistol as demand for the 1911 couldn't be met.. These revolvers used the same 45 auto cartridge with "Half Moon" clip to permit extraction since the case is rimless. Your example would have been originally equiped with wooden grips. This pistols were also issued to a limited extent during WW II.
I am somewhat surprised the cylinder still opened considering the condition. A very nice relic condition find!
Jim
Below is a link to a writeup on this pistol:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_revolver

[Igazsag]

Thank you!
Was the Model 1917 in Cal.38? Not only in Cal.45ACP?

Br, Igazsag

[Johnny Peppers]

The Model 1917 Colt was not made in .38 caliber. The pistol appears to be one of the Colt Army Special family of revolvers. In spite of it's model name, it was a civilian pistol. Production started in 1908, so it could have been taken to France as a personal weapon.

It came in calibers from the .32 WCF up to the .41 Colt, including the .38 S&W Special caliber.

[james m]

I based my model observation upon the apparent size of the pistol in the photo with it in his hand. It looks to big to be a 38.
A check of the bore /cylinder size would confirm whether it's a 38 or a 45.
Many Colt 38 revolvers were issued to the Army and Navy begining with the Model 1892 up to the Model 1903. These different models just signified mechanical improvements and the revolver remained basically unchanged. This model proved to have insufficient stopping power and was discontinued in 1908 although the Navy purportedly continued to issue them up into WW I.

Jim

[Johnny Peppers]

The Model 1917 Colt had the characteristic "shark fin" front sight, and the thumb piece for the cylinder release was "L" shaped. The revolver shown has a half moon front sight, and the back of the cylinder release appears to be rounded and checkered.

The .38 Colt round was underpowered, with the .38 S&W Special carrying a 25% larger powder charge. While what was to become the Model 1911 was still in development, in 1909 the military bought the Colt New Service in .45 Colt caliber, in what was called the Model 1909 Revolver which was the same appearance wise, except for the heavier barrel, as the Model 1917 Revolver.

[james m]

There is a lot of rust damage to the example under examination. I hold any further comments until the owner tells us the bore size.
Jim

[Johnny Peppers]

In his original post he says it is .38, and the cylinder walls are too thick to be .45.

While this is a Model 1909 it has the same dimensions as the Model 1917 with the exception of the barrel contour. The Model 1909 has a straight barrel where the Model 1917 barrel has a shoulder near the frame and is considerably thinner. The barrel has the same type sight as the Model 1917, and the same type cylinder release.

The Model 1909 shown has the charcoal blue commercial finish, where the Model 1917 had a brushed oven blue.

[Igazsag]

I found the WNr:




Is it cal.38?

[Johnny Peppers]

If it is the Colt Army Special, manufacture would have been in 1915. The serial number was on the crane, as indicated in your photograph, and opposite that serial number on the frame.

Depending on how much rust build up there is in the cylinders, your measurement seems to indicate that it would have .38 S&W Special caliber.

[Igazsag]

Thank you! I think it was the perfect answer me!

Br, Zoltán

[james m]

I have an additional question:
What is the overall barrel length as measured from the muzzle to the front of the cylinder?
Jim

[Igazsag]

Br, Igazsag

[Johnny Peppers]

Your measurement would indicate the pistol had a 4 1/2 inch barrel, which would be consistent with the barrel lengths available on the pistol at that time. Barrel lengths of 4, 4 1/4, 4 1/2, 5, and 6 inches were available.

[james m]

The point here that's interesting to me is the presence of a lanyard loop. Lanyard loops are usually associated with military issue hand guns and the Army Special was not adopted by the military although some examples were apparently made with a loop. In fact the Army Special found greater acceptance with police departments and was soon re-named the Official Police.
The example I have in my collection has a 6" barrel ,hard rubber grips and was built in 1921. It still goes to the range occasionally but I only shoot it with light target loads.
How your example made it into the Ardennes will probably forever remain a mystery. One plausible explanation is that it was a private purchase revolver carried as an additional weapon by a soldier as this was a fairly common practice.
Jim