Leuchtpistole Walther in Steel

[bergler]

Hello,

here are a few of my Walther Flare guns in Steel. All 3 are water- finds from the last years, they come out of the lakes near where I live. Hence the condition on one is poor, one is ok and my favourite is quite nice, and surprisingly this was the latest find from last year. The mud preserves sometimes well ;-)
These are somehow special to me because they have been untouched since the end of the war, even when the condition then is not the best. I do have far better ones, but with no history to them.

The first, No 22669 (my favourite) is quite special because it bears next to the usual stampings (CrownB, CrownU, 4 in a Circle) an early Lufftwaffenproofstamp Eagle2 at the right side of the frame, and the Number N4002 (Nachrichtenmittel 4002) on the left side. This is a Versorgungsnummer (Supply Number) of the Luftwaffe. I have seen this number on other Flare Guns as well (on pictures), even on the long barreld Walther Leuchtpistole. I believe this is quite rare. If somebody has some more information on this I would be very greatful. Oh, and the year 1937 is stamped as well, but on the right side of the Walther Banner and not as usual underneath it.

The second is a quite early Walther Flare gun, No 9765. It has the small trigger guard. The condition is ok. Next to the usual proof stamps (as above) there are Proof Stamps Eagle6 on Frame, Barrel and even on the smallest parts. I read in a former thread by User Signalman that this is the proof stamp of Simson/Suhl, as a number of Walther Flare guns have been refurbished by them. Any further information and details would be highly appreciated, as in when, what numbers, and if this was a long- barreled gun that has, as many others, been shortened (the barrel of course ;-)).

The third flare gun is very similar to the second, early Walther as well (No 8480), small trigger guard, and with the same markings, standard markings and additionally Eagle6 all over. Unfortunately the condition on this is quite poor, but it still works fine and was my first of this kind.

Any further information or comments are highly appreciated!

[bergler]

...and here is my latest addition......some rounds to go with them ;-)

[JoeW]

Very nice fishing Bergler. What was the bait? Hah.

I agree that the E/6 stamping perhaps indicates the rework by the still Jewish firm of Simson to shorten the barrel to new configuration (n.A.). They were official arsenal of the Prussian police and perhaps also the Reichswehr.

Here are my two Walther steel LPs from the Prussian Police contract. The first has only the simple Prussian sunburst property marking and the second the more definitive sunburst/K.

[JoeW]

One more of the earlier Walther steel police and the later police Walther steel.

[JoeW]

More detail of the later Walther steel LP with Prussian police sunburst/K.

[bergler]

Hi Joe,

the bait is longing ;-)

You got some very very nice steel Walthers here........the early steel LP´s with the small parts blued, they are quite something. I like this a lot. I am still looking for a long-barreld Walther, where the blueing is still ok. Do you think yours might have been longbarrelled and shortened........how does one determine this?

[JoeW]

Does Kern write when the shortened version begins? The earlier of mine has conisiderable barrel wear compared to the receiver. Perhaps this had barrel work done? But there is no mark of rework. Both LPs are post 1932/33 production in my opinion, based on appearance of the sunburst proof on Sauer Behorden models.

[SIGNALMAN]

Hello, The short steel Walther Heers most likely began in 1928 or so, as I have a 1928 dated standard Heer Holster. This is NOT a shortened holster.

This means most likely they started within a year of the Long Barrel Steel's introduction.

[ayf]

Nice and interesting pictures you have,i have a steel Walther like this with N -4002 stamping and no luftwaffe stamp.I dont think the N-stamping are a luftwaffe number system. If you take a look at the parts list in the Forratskasten fur leuchtpistole you l find a N number on every part on the flare gun.I think it,s a sort of partnumber on parts or a complete flare gun made by walther or Wehrmacht.

Regards
Norway

[bergler]

Nice and interesting pictures you have,i have a steel Walther like this with N -4002 stamping and no luftwaffe stamp.I dont think the N-stamping are a luftwaffe number system. If you take a look at the parts list in the Forratskasten fur leuchtpistole you l find a N number on every part on the flare gun.I think it,s a sort of partnumber on parts or a complete flare gun made by walther or Wehrmacht.

Regards
Norway

Hi,
can you post pics of your LP as well, would be interesting! The N4002 is the Versorgungsnummer (supply number) of the flare gun. See for this Walther Kern´s book on page 218/219, there you will find the contents of a Notfallbehälter (emergency unit) with all it´s supply numbers. N4002 is stated as well for the flare gun(s). It is the same as with the double-barrelled Fliegerleuchtpistolen.......they all have the same F.L. or L.N. Number on the left side.

At an older Hermann Historica auction catalogue there is a long-barreled Walther with serial nmber 12567. Mine are 8480 and 9765, so can one say that they should have been long-barrelled and then shortened by Simson?

[SIGNALMAN]

"so can one say that they should have been long-barrelled and then shortened by Simson? "


I think they started making the long barrel first

Then both Long and short barrel together.

then after the short barrel was standardized, most of the long barrels were shortened.

Besides my early dated Heer holster which would indicate very early factory short barrel pistols,

if you examine enough of the short barreled steel Walthers with early serial numbers you will see some have crowned barrels at the muzzle ( probably factory ), and others are cut flat at the muzzle ( shortened )

Since many have both been shortened, and have "eagle s" rework proofs I believe it was just assumed they ( the short barreled Walthers ) were all shortened.

[bergler]

"so can one say that they should have been long-barrelled and then shortened by Simson? "


I think they started making the long barrel first

Then both Long and short barrel together.

then after the short barrel was standardized, most of the long barrels were shortened.

Besides my early dated Heer holster which would indicate very early factory short barrel pistols,

if you examine enough of the short barreled steel Walthers with early serial numbers you will see some have crowned barrels at the muzzle ( probably factory ), and others are cut flat at the muzzle ( shortened )

Since many have both been shortened, and have "eagle s" rework proofs I believe it was just assumed they ( the short barreled Walthers ) were all shortened.

Hi Signalman,
thanks for teh explanation.....you are mentioning eagle/s proof marks fpr remarks. I only know the eagle/6, and you mentioned in another thread that this is the proof mark of Simson, ist this right? Did they have the contract for the rework of the early Walthers?

[SIGNALMAN]

senior moment, yes, it is eagle 6, Simpson rework

I do not read German, my opinions are based on my observations only. ( I would not recognize a Simpson contract if it jumped up and bit me. ) Joe W and Wolfgang Kern are the men for written proof.

[JoeW]

Just glanced at the 1936 Walther anniversary book and found that they offered both the 232mm and 155mm barrel length LPs. And aluminum was available then as well as steel.

[bergler]

Just glanced at the 1936 Walther anniversary book and found that they offered both the 232mm and 155mm barrel length LPs. And aluminum was available then as well as steel.

This is interesting, in 1936 still long- barrel available. Thanks a lot for this. One of my early Walther´s shown here has the date 1937 on it, but was in my eyes manufactured many moons (years) before that time. I think rework (stamped e/6) was done then and with it came the 1937 stamp on it.