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Leuchtpistole AC43 Zinc with WaA and Police Proof Stamp!

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    #16
    " Howard, do you think the Walther LPs were produced in the same time frame as the Erma-Erfurt? They start about the same time for the police, perhaps a year earlier with the * acceptance stamp on steel guns. I think with serial ranges, the police production reached 1944. "
    ================================================== ====

    Joe I am not sure what you mean. Walther HEERS began production in 1928 and didn't stop till the end of 1943, maybe later. My earliest Erma is in 1936 and as far as I know it is the only one known, although with a #6xx there must be more out there.

    If you mean Zink production duv has the earliest date at 1941 and produced in very small quantities through 1943, Walthers and Erma's are 1942 to 1943. Possibly the Commercial Walther Banners were produced later, but I doubt it.

    If you you are talking about Police Models, You are the expert on that, I really have no serial number list, just the few examples I own.

    If you are talking about Kampfpistols Erma began in 1940 with their ayf 40, and ended in 1942 with ayf 42's and the Erma-Erfurts probably in 1942 - 1943. Walthers were AC 41's and AC-42's

    The Erma-Erfurt code on LP's began in 1936 through 1940, Then continued only on police guns in 1941 and 42, and finally on Zink and Kampfpistoles in 1943 ( possibly also the end of 42 )

    I hope one of these answers will help, If I misunderstood the question let me know.

    Comment


      #17
      Howard, sorry for not clarifying the question. As we started with a nice police E/C and I added my "commercial" guns, I was referring to police issue LPs.

      You have an Erma-Erfurt LP dated 1936 with serial #6xx? Is it military, police or unmarked? The first E-E police issue LPs I have recorded are 1937 dated and in the beginning range of the contract with a suffix. I wrote about them in that Auto Mag article some years ago. I think you might have one in the #3xx range.

      I asked above if you thought the Walther police contract started about the same time as the E-E contact. From acceptance marks, it seems that it did.

      Comment


        #18
        Hi Joe,

        Thanks for the information
        By the way, do you have any explanation concerning the fact that there is Id number is on that place on the barrel ?

        Regards

        Comment


          #19
          Bruno, je n'comprends pas. The Id number (Hersteller Nummer/Serial Number) is in the same place on the barrel of the Z as on the barrel of the Zink.

          Your web site is merveilleux.

          Comment


            #20
            Hello Joe, My Erma Erfurt dated 1936 is a standard Army Military, #6xx with no suffix.

            I really am not good on timeframes on the police contract. I do not keep records of observed dates and proofs. I bow to your opinion on those.

            I think you have records of all my police flareguns as I have not purchased a new one for many many years.

            Comment


              #21
              Hi, I have a mint aluminium Erma-Erfurt with no WaA nor police markings that is definately post 1940, most probably 1943. I will try to add pictures as well. Still donĀ“t understand why Erma dropped the war-coding as this was a must since April 1940 I think.

              Regards,
              Martin












              Originally posted by SIGNALMAN View Post
              " Howard, do you think the Walther LPs were produced in the same time frame as the Erma-Erfurt? They start about the same time for the police, perhaps a year earlier with the * acceptance stamp on steel guns. I think with serial ranges, the police production reached 1944. "
              ================================================== ====


              The Erma-Erfurt code on LP's began in 1936 through 1940, Then continued only on police guns in 1941 and 42, and finally on Zink and Kampfpistoles in 1943 ( possibly also the end of 42 )

              I hope one of these answers will help, If I misunderstood the question let me know.

              Comment


                #22
                Martin, I think the Erma-Erfurt was continued from 1937 on the first LPs up through the Zink and Z pistols. It was a commercial contract for the SS/police. The police used Mauser Banner P08s during the same period,as well as other commercial weapons. Not until the P38 did the police guns use codes.

                Thank you for sharing.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by JoeW View Post
                  ....The Id number (Hersteller Nummer/Serial Number) is in the same place on the barrel of the Z as on the barrel of the Zink. ...
                  Hi Joe,

                  That's what I was looking at.

                  On your Z (and on the Zink model shown at the begining), the serial number is in position A & B (red circle)



                  Usually, the serial number on the barrel is on B & C positions (red arrow).

                  Do you know why such place or is it specific to some contracts ?

                  Regards

                  PS: Thanks for your nice comment about the web site

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Hello guys-

                    This is a very interesting thread.

                    I have a general question about flare pistols.

                    Was zinc the basic and only material that was used on these pistols after a certain date as mentioned in the above posts? Also, are zinc flare pistols any scarcer or harder to find than aluminum versions? I am just asking because I really never studied these pistols before and saw one with the zinc marking a few months ago and thought it interesting as I just thought alumimium was the material used.

                    Thanks,

                    John

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Hi John,

                      Zinc was supposed to replace Aluminium for the production of flare funs (and other items) as Alu was desperately needed for the airplane industry. Neverteless, Zinc and Aluminium flare guns were produced in parallel. Zinc flare guns are much harder to find (and more expensive) as the production numbers of those are much smaller than the Alu versions.

                      Hope this helps. If you get a nice Zinc.........buy it ;-)

                      Regards,

                      Martin



                      Originally posted by John T View Post
                      Hello guys-

                      This is a very interesting thread.

                      I have a general question about flare pistols.

                      Was zinc the basic and only material that was used on these pistols after a certain date as mentioned in the above posts? Also, are zinc flare pistols any scarcer or harder to find than aluminum versions? I am just asking because I really never studied these pistols before and saw one with the zinc marking a few months ago and thought it interesting as I just thought alumimium was the material used.

                      Thanks,

                      John

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Hi Martin-

                        Thank you very much for the explanation.

                        I was impressed by the flare gun made of zinc, as I did not think zinc a high enough quality metal to use in pistols (well yes flare pistols), but obviously this zinc was a higher grade of zinc so that surely stood out in my mind. I suppose the price of the piece was reasonable maybe 225 or 250 dollars but I passed as it was not my collecting forte and later on in the show somebody else has bought it as I did not see it anymore on the dealer's table and I am sure they were happy, at any rate very interesting to have learned something.

                        Kindest Regards,

                        John

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by bergler View Post
                          Hi, I have a mint aluminium Erma-Erfurt with no WaA nor police markings that is definately post 1940, most probably 1943. I will try to add pictures as well. Still donĀ“t understand why Erma dropped the war-coding as this was a must since April 1940 I think.

                          Regards,
                          Martin







                          Martin, These thumnails are not viewable. What is the serial number of this Erma-Erfurt. The proof is similar to my Z and zink models. Is the serial number on the barrel in the same position as on my Z and zink above?

                          I hadn't noticed the serial number position before Bruno. I checked on my six Erma-Erfurt police issues from 1937-142 and the serial number on the barrel is in the normal lower position, partly concealed by the frame. Also, the my zink model does not have the (4) caliber marking like the earlier aluminum Erma-Erfurts.
                          Last edited by JoeW; 06-30-2010, 09:46 AM.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Hi Joe,
                            Serial Number on this one is 8916, and it is placed again on the barrel above the main bolt, clearly visible and not hidden.

                            Just got a few pictures today (it might become a very very good day ;-) of a Erma Erfurt, Ser# 890. It might be very interesting.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              That info really poses some questions. Unfortunately, I had not been collecting "Eagle Only" proofed LPs by Erma-Erfurt. The high serial number would indicate a separate range for these guns, outside the police contract as I wouldn't suspect that would have been made after the zink contract. Anyone have any other serial numbers of Erma-Erfurt "eagle only" prooferd aluminum LPs?

                              An Erma-Erfurt #890? Might be marked with the E/L and dated 1937 or 1938.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by JoeW View Post
                                That info really poses some questions. Unfortunately, I had not been collecting "Eagle Only" proofed LPs by Erma-Erfurt. The high serial number would indicate a separate range for these guns, outside the police contract as I wouldn't suspect that would have been made after the zink contract. Anyone have any other serial numbers of Erma-Erfurt "eagle only" prooferd aluminum LPs?

                                An Erma-Erfurt #890? Might be marked with the E/L and dated 1937 or 1938.
                                Joe,
                                I had that Erma- Erfurt postet in another Forum a while ago. The answer after quite a bit of research was that Erma produced in 1943 some Z and normal guns with full name and no other military proofs. This is the Information I got.

                                I will be able to give you more detail about the E/E Serial# 890 next week.

                                Comment

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