K98/K43 Silencers

[djpool]

A friend of mine asked me to post pictures of his 2 silencers that he dug up in Europe. To be honest I don't know much about them. The silencer for the K43 is discussed in the book Hitlers Garands by Weaver.One of his silencers does fit the K43. The other fits the K98 but he never tried it out on the K43. Heres picture one of the first silencer. Jim

[djpool]

Silencer

A friend of mine asked me to post pictures of his 2 silencers that he dug up in Europe. To be honest I don't know much about them. The silencer for the K43 is discussed in the book Hitlers Garands by Weaver.One of his silencers does fit the K43. The other fits the K98 but he never tried it out on the K43. Heres picture one of the first silencer. Jim

Heres the other side of the same silencer.

[djpool]

Silencer

Heres the other side of the same silencer.

Heres the other silencer.I only took one picture of it.

[Matt Weber]

Very cool!
Too bad your friend didn't find one that still works!
I'd like to try one out!

Matt

[Sebastian Bianchi]

This might be a silly question, but how loud is a rifle with a silencer? Say like dropping a book flat on the floor from chest high? (just trying to get a picture).

[ramon]

Silencers are an interesting topic. While the blast of gas at the muzzle is confined by the suppressor or 'can' and the sound greatly attenuated, the crack created by the hypersonic projectile passing objects along its flight is not. For example, shooting along a road with telephone poles with a suppressed rifle will give off with a slapping sound as the bullet passes the poles.


For a suppressor to be truly effective, your ammunition must be subsonic. Pistols tend to be better suited for use of cans. With the proper ammuntion and a well designed can, you can easily hear the sound of the mechanical movement of the pistol's action. It's interesting to attend Knob Creek where they permit silencers to be shot just prior to the automatic weapons being opened up.

Until just after WWI, the US Army issued 2 rifles with cans to each company, but practical, effective suppression of sound was negated by the noise of hypersonic ammunition as described above. Silencers were not issued after 1919. The issue of subsonic ammunition to rifles would limit the practical range of the weapon for combat purposes as combat as bullet drop would be considerable.

Pistols offer a greater opportunity for use of cans in covert operations as targets of opportunity tend to be very close at hand.

Ramon

[Sebastian Bianchi]

Thanks Ramon, interesting post.

[R_Hessian]

I've handeled one!

Great posting! The small museum out here where I live has a one that was cut open for exam by the folks at Anastin.
It has all the baffels fixed to the inside and is really very interesting to look at.
VERY nice thread, Thanks!
Robert

[JaimeH]

But doesn't even a pistol round travel faster than the sound barrier? The reason I ask is I shot my M-II (cobray) 9mm with the the 2 liter Coke bottle silencer. It worked good for a few shots, I figured the plastic was slowing the round down. As the hole opened up from multiple shots the sound became louder. Thanks

[djpool]

Silencers

But doesn't even a pistol round travel faster than the sound barrier? The reason I ask is I shot my M-II (cobray) 9mm with the the 2 liter Coke bottle silencer. It worked good for a few shots, I figured the plastic was slowing the round down. As the hole opened up from multiple shots the sound became louder. Thanks

Thanks for great info guys.I'm no weapons expert and certainly don't understand why these silencers were used or needed in front line units. Even the silencer in Wilkins book was ground dug. Are there any surviving working examples out there. Jim

[R_Hessian]

Suppressors

Guys,

These are "suppressors" not silencers, in order to silence the round must be subsonic.

The Germans used them on night patrols etc., in the Marines we had HK's that were 9mm and they also had "suppressors" not silencers.

Robert

Thanks for great info guys.I'm no weapons expert and certainly don't understand why these silencers were used or needed in front line units. Even the silencer in Wilkins book was ground dug. Are there any surviving working examples out there. Jim

[djpool]

Suppressors

Guys,

These are "suppressors" not silencers, in order to silence the round must be subsonic.

The Germans used them on night patrols etc., in the Marines we had HK's that were 9mm and they also had "suppressors" not silencers.

Robert

Robert excuse my ignorance but I assume we're talking about a "flash Suppresor" which would make more sense to me.Jim

[ramon]

Robert is correct. The correct term is sound suppressor. However the popular press, pulp literature and even firearms literature uses the term silencer quite often.


Pistol ammunition that is destined to be used for sound suppressor purposes will be loaded to develop a lower velocity than the normal lots.

When working with semi automatic or selective fire weapons, it becomes necessary to adjust the recoil resistance by changing the springs otherwise the weapons becomes a clumsy single shot affair.

Ramon

[Peter C]

The Germans did have sub-sonic 7.92x57 ammo. It was identified by the green cartridge case and was called the Nahpatrone. It is the left one in the picture.

Peter

[Steve in Florida]

Silencers vs. suppressors

Neat devices. I have never seen a real WWII German rifle silencer before these photos. Shame they aren't in nicer shape, but still very rare.

Ooh, ooh, a subject I know a little about and can contribute to the discussion

Silencers vs. suppressors

On the other hand....while technically they do suppress, they are known as silencers 'round these parts. Although I have several friends and acquaintances in the sound suppressor manufacturing business and it drives them absolutely nuts to hear them called silencers, ATF calls them silencers on their forms and guides. So do the Federal laws. Florida statutes calls them silencers and Sir Hiram Maxim's company called them silencers (IIRC). Small Arms of the World and several other respectable and authoritative books call them silencers. The British Sten MKIIS was "silenced". The Navy's Hush Puppy was refered to as a silencer. I could go on, but I think I've beat the horse into hamburger

The device does several things to help the firer: it suppresses muzzle flash, suppresses the explosion (sound) of the cartridge (helping his ears, the ears of bystander and hides it from the targets), keeps muzzle climb down, reduces the dust kick up at the muzzle, reduces smoke signature from the muzzle, reduces disruption of vegetation near the muzzle. Even though the bullet's sonic boom can be heard in the case of supersonic ammunition, the silencer confuses the people being shot at as to where the noise is actually coming from.

The degree of sound suppression depends on a lot of things: type of weapon action, volume of silencer, baffle construction, subsonic vs supersonic bullet, type of round, barrel length, etc, etc. Only rifle silencer/sound suppressor/ moderator I own fits on AR15/M16 type weapon. It's 8" long and 1.25" in diameter. Shooting without the silencer and ear protection (not advisable), it is loud and hurts my sensitive ears. Shooting it with the silencer makes it quieter than an unsuppressed .22 long rifle and it can be shot without other hearing protection. Put a .22 LR conversion kit in the weapon and you can hear the action going back and forth and that's it. Silenced/ suppressed weapons are as fun as machine guns. Pure sex

The .45 ACP round is great for silenced weapons such as modified M3's and De Lisle carbines as it is generally already subsonic.

And YEE HAA!!!!!! I'm an Association Member now! Thanks Seba! Sorry it took so long. Can't believe I've been here three years.