K98/K43 Silencers

[Matt Weber]

Great information by everybody! I've learned twice as much as I knew before already.

Peter,
I didn't know the Germans made a sub-sonic rifle round?! That is amazing! and you got one! Do you have any more? That would definately help the "silencer" work then if they used this type of round. As I said before, I would love to try one of these out, and see exactly how much noise it makes.

Also, on a simular subject. The P38 did have a silenced version as well! It had modified sights that were mounted higher to see over the silencer. Does anyone happen to have one of these? (Ramon?) If so, PLEASE POST!

Matt

[Matt Weber]

I did it! I did some searching and found a picture of a P38 with silencer! It is not a very good picture though, but you can clearly see a wartime P38 with original silencer on it! The sights are modified to see above the silencer!
Pretty cool huh?

Does anyone have one of these?
If so, please post some pics!

Matt

[W Petz]

K43/K98 Silencers

I finally have rejoined the forum and have time to provide some imput on this subject and my two ground dug silencers. I'm sure some of the English written tech manuals or articles refer to these two rather rare items as sound suppressors but everything I have read abount silencers states they are silencers. The only article that I have seen or read on the subject of these two items was in a German gun magazine called Waffenjounal. They referred to the items in question as schalldampfer which translates to be silencer according to my German -English dictionary. I found these particular silencers near the German/Luxembourg border. The K43 silencer on the luxembourg side and the K98 Silencer on the German side (Dasburg, Germany). This area was a key bridgehead during the Ardennes Offensive and retreat back to Germany. I have found alot of items (weapons, Tank parts, grenades, decorations, etc.) along several winding roads that lead to the Zollhaus and newer bridge. I can only assume these items had been issued to a sniper or snipers who were assigned to cover that area. Since these items were experimental and never actually put into production I consider them very rare indeed. Several G43's and K98's were found in the immediate area but I cannot attribute them to the silencers since no sniper scopes were to be found.

[merdock]

Hi,

There belong in my experience to the K98 a friend of mine has one in near mint condition marked K98 etc but the baffles are missing.
Merdock

[W Petz]

Hi Merdock,

I recently saw an example of a silencer (the second and larger of my silencers) in a book on G43's (Hitlers Garands?). I actually tried it on my G43 and it fits but it doesn't fit on my K98 so I would say it was made for the G/K43's and not the K98. The other example and smaller version does fit my K98. So I would say that at least two experimental models were made for separate weapons. Unfortunately there is no evidence left on either silencer to indicate the type of weapon it was made for and to my understanding most of those silencers were unmarked. Does your friend have a photo of his silencer if so it would be nice if you could have it posted on this forum. Thanks - Bill

[merdock]

Hi Bill,

His is like the second one that you posted the single photo,
consisting of the mounting part ,a 1 piece main body and the end piece and it's marked K98 and somthing else. It is very long i would say approx 12/14 inch whats the length of yours.
I did not notice at 1st that the other 1 has a 2 piece tube,so if thats the one that fits your K43 theirs another type or that they were made in one piece and two piece bodies and just changing the mounting. .I've asked him before but he's not forthcoming will ask again.
Happy new year Merdock

[Johnnie]

Silencers or suppressors, are indeed an interesting subject. Most of what has been posted here is accurate in regards to them. Once again though, there rteally is no such thing as a "silencer" unless su-sonic ammunition is used. During my association with the U.S. Army sniper program, we used M-21(National Match M-14's) sniper rifles and had access to the Vietnam era Sionics Sound Suppressor. Using 7.62mm NATO, M-118 National Match ball cartridges, it was very effective in "baffling" the sound to where it was difficult to determine the location of the shooter from "down range". It still didn't eliminate the sonic "crack" of the bullet. Interestingly enough, tests done by the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit shop showed that if the suppressor was properly installed on the rifle, it actually increased accuracy.
One of the problems associated with suppressing the sounds involved in using semi-automatic weapons ids the rather loud "clack" of the action operating.
Just some thought from an old sniper veteran,
Tschuss,
Johnnie

[R_Hessian]

Johnnie

Johnnie,
Your comments are 100% correct, the bottom line is that this device would not make a 8mm rifle silent! It would "reduce" the "crack"... as you mentioned only a sub-sonic round would result with as close as "silent".
I think more of these things were used than might be thought... the Germans also used a device on a special CZ27 and made a holster to go with it!
We know that they made devices for the K98, P38, CZ27 and now this thread reflects the G/K43.
They have been found in Russia, Baltic states etc., As time goes by more will bubble to the surface. Now here is the sad part... if they are not registered already, they are in violation of NFA rules in the USA.
Yes, they are just as HOT as an unregistered machine gun.
Robert

Silencers or suppressors, are indeed an interesting subject. Most of what has been posted here is accurate in regards to them. Once again though, there rteally is no such thing as a "silencer" unless su-sonic ammunition is used. During my association with the U.S. Army sniper program, we used M-21(National Match M-14's) sniper rifles and had access to the Vietnam era Sionics Sound Suppressor. Using 7.62mm NATO, M-118 National Match ball cartridges, it was very effective in "baffling" the sound to where it was difficult to determine the location of the shooter from "down range". It still didn't eliminate the sonic "crack" of the bullet. Interestingly enough, tests done by the U.S. Army Marksmanship Unit shop showed that if the suppressor was properly installed on the rifle, it actually increased accuracy.
One of the problems associated with suppressing the sounds involved in using semi-automatic weapons ids the rather loud "clack" of the action operating.
Just some thought from an old sniper veteran,
Tschuss,
Johnnie

[djpool]

Hello Robert.

I'm repyling from my friend Jim Pools house. Please do not misunderstand what I'm trying to say. I spent 24 years in the Army and and was a Vietnam Vet. I'm not doubting the US and especially Military Technical terms about sound suppressors. Just pointing out that the Germans themselves refer to the G/K43 and K98 sound supressors as Schallldampfers which literally translates as silencers. The German Military had their own Technical terms as well. I also believe when you are making reference to sound suppressors (i.e., Schalldampfers - Silencers) as being illegal you are talking about a working example and not a ground dug one that no longer is usable and can only be displayed for it's historical value. I and many others appreciate your valuable knowledge and expertise on the subject. Thanks - Bill Petz

[R_Hessian]

Hi!

Hello Bill!

Point taken on the translation and neglected on my part, my error. But I would advise a little research on ATF rules and reg's. These items can be legal but they would have had to have been registered during the amnesty period which as you know was sometime ago.
I'm not trying to tell anyone what they must do with any ground dug item but I will tell you that the rules for all items such as Un-registered class three receivers or "silencers" are very defined and specific.

Being in Law enforcement and knowing how events transpire I would validate with the BATF as to their "policy" on items that are lets say "beyond use".

But I would never assume that a controlled item ( which these are ) are legal just because of erosion and non functioning statues.

Now that is my perspective as a previous Class three dealer and a law enforcement officer... only my thoughts.

Army, well pleased to here about that! I proudly wear two Army medals that were presented to me while I was in the Marines. If you are ever up this way let me know I'll split my "Rum ration" with ya!

Thanks for your comments and input on this thread!

Regards,

Robert

Hello Robert.

I'm repyling from my friend Jim Pools house. Please do not misunderstand what I'm trying to say. I spent 24 years in the Army and and was a Vietnam Vet. I'm not doubting the US and especially Military Technical terms about sound suppressors. Just pointing out that the Germans themselves refer to the G/K43 and K98 sound supressors as Schallldampfers which literally translates as silencers. The German Military had their own Technical terms as well. I also believe when you are making reference to sound suppressors (i.e., Schalldampfers - Silencers) as being illegal you are talking about a working example and not a ground dug one that no longer is usable and can only be displayed for it's historical value. I and many others appreciate your valuable knowledge and expertise on the subject. Thanks - Bill Petz

[gew98]

g

I did it! I did some searching and found a picture of a P38 with silencer! It is not a very good picture though, but you can clearly see a wartime P38 with original silencer on it! The sights are modified to see above the silencer!
Pretty cool huh?

Does anyone have one of these?
If so, please post some pics!

Matt

I have the same book with the pictured suppressed Pistole 38. The germans produced CZ 27 7,65 caliber pistols with threaded barrels and special elongated holsters for these slightly longer threaded barrel tip pistols. Have seen a couple original suppressor intended CZ27 pistols and their holsters.Fairly scarce and to my knowledge nobody has seen a suppressor for one yet , and never heard of one even at APG. But nonetheless the germans did make the pistols for such use. As for translations - suppressor/silencer. It is a common discrepancy of many to think too literal on such translation definitions. The suppressors the germans toyed with for rifles obviously were not silenced even with the special nahpatrone for them.

[gew98]

hn

A friend of mine asked me to post pictures of his 2 silencers that he dug up in Europe. To be honest I don't know much about them. The silencer for the K43 is discussed in the book Hitlers Garands by Weaver.One of his silencers does fit the K43. The other fits the K98 but he never tried it out on the K43. Heres picture one of the first silencer. Jim

Michael Heidler of germany has an excellent book on german rifle grenades and suppressors. It's only available in german language text , but the $25 for the trade papaerback is well worth the pics alone. He supplied D.Weaver with the suppressor info/pics. GGBUCH@WEB.DE is how you can contact michael and get a copy of his work.