were the same bullets used in...

[C.O.Sargent]

What about Broomhandles is it the same for the as with lugers?

[François B.]

There is a difference......

The standard broomhandle fires with 7,63 x 25mm.

But there were broomhandles made with 9 x 19mm chambering, called the "Red 9" they were painted with red paint on the grips. (to prevent the pistols' users from loading them with 7.63 mm ammunition by mistake.)

Here is a pic.

The upper is the standard Broomhandle 7,63mm made by DWM
The lower is a standard German 9mm

[C.O.Sargent]

Thanks for the reply, so with the red nines would you run into the same problem as the luger?

[François B.]

Yes, be careful....

The problem is, the standard modern 9mm ammo, is more powerful then the 9mm ammo produced before and in the war.

These baby's are not made for high-explosive modern 9mm ammo....

[Johnnie]

American made commercial 9mm standard ball( NOT high velocity Plus P loads) is loaded as to be safe in almost all 9mm pistols in good condition. However, it is a different story with postwar made military 9mm ball. The first defects of slide breakage in US military Berettas was due to the use of Isreali made 9mm black tip which was designed for the Usi SMG.
If you have a Lugar, P-38. Mauser Red 9, ect. and it is in good condition,(and verified by a competent gunsmith) the use of American commercial 9mm standard ball is OK. I would certainly avoid the use of any modern military loads, just as a precaution.

Cheers,

Johnnie

Yes, be careful....

The problem is, the standard modern 9mm ammo, is more powerful then the 9mm ammo produced before and in the war.

These baby's are not made for high-explosive modern 9mm ammo....

[Glenn Barbaritz]

And Glenn, please post your pics of the boxes and ammo also in the Ordnance Forum

sure thing Francois. Ill post some pics in the next few days there so you can check them out. I have a real nice box of K98 bullets (from the Guy I talked of) that have a fine coating of dust on all the shells. I believe they were never out of the box or even touched. Glenn

[gew98]

Phil I second your observation on some of the armchair commando ammo data erroneously pooped out here in this thread.

On the turkish ball - it is the S patrone loading , a 154gn flat based pointed bullet that was loaded to german specs at approx 2700 fps. The reason the vast majority of surplus turkish 7,92 ball out there is seemingly so hot is due to it's deterioration from bad storage and age. As the old ammo breaks down with improper storage the old powder in them becomes more explosive - hence the unusually high pressures.
The german produced 7,92 sS patrone was made for use in MG's and rifles just as was the S patrone in the great war. The sS patrone used a 196 gn bullet at around 2500 fps.By 1942 the germans economised and started producing S.m.E. - Iron cored bullets to save on lead which weighed in at approx 178 gns with roughly the same Muzz velocity. When lots were repacked and often mixed in that process from unused training and field use at depots they became an unknown quality and are often found marked when repacked by wartime german depots not to be used in machineguns for overhead fire.
The Luftwaffe produced extra fine quality 7,92 for aircraft that used MG's that fired through their props - a delayed ignition (hangfire) would render the synchro worthless and they could as such shoot their own prop off. As well the luftwaffe produced a wad of special purpose tracer and spotter type projectiles but nothing with outlandish pressures.
When shooting any surplus ball rifle or pistol ammo you cannot be sure of it's previous storage to know how deteriorated it may be. The turk fodder speaks for itself on it's improper state , no doubt why the turks surplussed it off.
The germans did issue a directive to reserve stocks of brass cased Pistole Patr.08 for the P08 pistol as the "luger" was very prone to jamming with steel cased Patr.08 , the P38 to a very much lesser extent.

There is a lot of incorrect information being posted in this thread...talking guns and ammo does that to people it seems.

I have fired a lot of Turkish 8mm Mauser (7.9x57 and 7.92x57 they are all the exact same) that cronographed at over 3000 fps with some in the batch at over 3200 fps. This was all out of a 98k and while I disliked the ammo, it was not unsafe for a proper built rifle. Recommended fps is closer to 2300-2400 for this round.

All German 8mm mauser chambered weapons would fire the same round and there was no specific versions that had to be fired from MGs or rifles...there were different loads, projectile materials/weights and case materials...but no exclusive 8mm for one type of weapon.

I agree about the dangers of firing SMG loaded 9mm (or any hot loaded) in older pistols...I've seen personally a fair number damaged from this.

All of the German WWII 9mm Parabellum would work and interchange in any 9mm Parabellum pistol (there were many other 9mm pistols in use in Europe that would not fire the 9mm Parabellum rd) or Machine Pistol, however the Germans marked many of the boxes as "Nur fur MP" meaning only use in Machine Pistols. Hard to say if this ammo would have damaged a Luger or P.38 with occasional use but the German's felt it serious enough to mark the boxes.

[gew98]

Yes, be careful....

The problem is, the standard modern 9mm ammo, is more powerful then the 9mm ammo produced before and in the war.

These baby's are not made for high-explosive modern 9mm ammo....

I had a buddy years ago that shot to sh*t a once nice S&W Model 59 with a wad of surplus back nosed israeli 9mm. It got so bad his pistol sort of would fire off bursts - and boy did it rattle permanently after he ran it all through it.
I have read of any extended use of german wartime sintered iron 9mm ammo will effectively 'erase' the rifling. I saw the remains of a once beautiful Glisenti pistol that some oaf shot standard 9mm through alot until it came apart. Remember the glisenti chambers the 9x19 but their issue round for it was considerably lower powered than anyone else's 9x19.

[Dufleuve]

Regarding WWII 7.92 ammo, all can be fired in the K98 and MG except the following ones:

1) SMK-v (green ring on bullet) : these were specially loaded for the aircraft MG17
2) SMK-H (black bullet): same loading as the SMK-v

3) Beschuss (green cartridge base): test load for proofing

Anyway, the last two are so rare, you would not want to fire them.

Cheers,
Pascal