Bill, It's interesting that you'd display a rifle like this soon after I picked one up in a trade.....Yours has BLM(duv) manufactured hardware and a Mauser(byf) manufactured stock....I noticed the stock serial # is minus the lower cased letter.....The rifle I got has Mauser(byf) manufactured hardware with a Gustloff (bcd) manufactured stock....The serial # on the toe of my rifle is also lacking the lower case letter....I was a little concerned at first because the Boriswalde 1937 mauser I traded exhibited the lower case letter on the stock....I see this wasn't always the case.....Bodes
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locer cased letter
BOdes, I was wondering when someone was going to notice the byf stock and the missing lower cased letter..Very correct on these weapons as the they used a continous supply of sub-contracted parts...BILLOriginally posted by bodesComment
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Just viewed your duv-41 which appears to be in the ‘m’ range and have a few observations. I am curious as to how you reconcile your rifle with some of this information. The following specimens are currently in my collection. All are 100% matching, correct and completely untouched.
-duv-40 K98k 20xx ‘i’ range. Stock numbered externally including ‘i’ letter block with numbered flat buttplate.
-duv-41 K98k 93xx ‘e’ range. Stock numbered externally including ‘e’ letter block with numbered flat buttplate.
-duv-41 K98k 31xx ‘n’ range. Stock numbered externally including ‘n’ letter block with un-numbered cupped ‘dwc’ buttplate.
-duv-42 K98k zf41 88xx’c’ range. Stock numbered externally including ‘c’ letter block with un-numbered cupped ‘bpr’ coded buttplate.
-duv-42 K98k 47xx ‘e’ range. Stock numbered externally including ‘e’ letter block with un-numbered cupped ‘brg’ coded buttplate.
I have additional data on other duv’s, which support this external numbering and letter block information. All rifles have similar mauser style stocks which are correctly 214 proofed throughout. Also, the characters utilized to number all factory duv’s that I own or have examined have a slight script like quality which does not match what I see in the pictures here. These characters appear to have an SAE size and style. Is there any chance this is not a factory duv and/or a depot-reworked rifle or in some fashion a dual manufacture? Hard to tell from the pictures.
Heading out on a short relics buying trip. Will respond to any comments when I am back in the loop tomorrow or Sunday.
Regards,
Scott BLast edited by sszza2; 06-24-2005, 10:22 AM.Comment
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The 41 duv I use to own in the 3000 l block supports Scott's observations; the 3 & 4 on the comb was totally different style from this one & it had the "l" suffix below the serial on the comb/bttm of stock; below that a e/214; the cupped buttplate was brp with no date but was serialed.
It wasn't a perfect rifle as it was a bolt m/m but the stock was original to the rifle...
Originally posted by sszza2Comment
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I have also never seen evidence that the absence of the letter suffix on the stock is a correct condition and common on any variation of duv coded rifles in this period. In any case the use of sub-contract parts such as stocks would never drive the decision to not stamp the letter suffix of the rifle on the stock. The two issues appear completely unrelated. Its hard to imagine that the guy on the assembly line stamping the numbers and letter suffix was under orders to identify assemblies using sub-contract stocks and treat them differently by not stamping a letter suffix. To what end? In addition, such a handling would be completely counter to observed marking standards by duv and other manufacturers.
I would be interested to hear any additional evidence which supports the no letter suffix stamping in the stock theory on any factory duv-41 with or without a sub-contract stock.
ScottLast edited by sszza2; 06-26-2005, 09:18 AM.Comment
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Graf's information however corroborates Bill's notion that cupped buttplates were indeed serial #'d......What's the reason for the lower case letter being omitted on the toe of Bill's rifle?....I'm not sure....It's also lacking on mine (byf 41 w/Gustloff made stock), along with not being on my flat buttplate.....I understand the numbering font is different between the metal and the wood on Bill's....They are however identical on mine.....Is this a reason for concern?....Hopefully some one will come up with the answer to this riddle.....
Bodes
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There is no question that the transition from flat to cupped buttplate on factory duv K98ks saw continuation of numbering on each style of buttplate for a period. This is not a revelation. However, stock numbering with letter suffix standards remained consistent and continued on factory duv production well into '42, and evidence indicates until production ceased. Therefore, there should be a genuine reason for concern on any factory duv of this vintage without the letter suffix stamped on the stock. There should also be major concern over the SAE font style/size of number characters utilized on this or any stock utilized during the WWII period. Yes there was variance between font styles on stocks vs. other metal parts. However they were never SAE style or size. For sake of this example, I checked all externally numbered oberndorfs and gustloffs in my collection and the font style/size that appear on the subject duv is not in the ball park.
By the way Bodes - what is the letter suffix of your duv-41? Wondering as to where your specimen fits in terms of markings and features in the suffix ranges discussed. Are you certain it is factory duv production? Could it possibly be a dual manufacurer or period rework?
I am still interested to hear evidence which supports the different handling and marking standards for sub-contract parts utilized by duv or any factory (for that matter) assembly line. Bills' comment was written as though it was common knowledge so I am very curious to hear the facts behind the statement. Always interested in expanding my knowledge.
ScottLast edited by sszza2; 06-28-2005, 09:13 AM.Comment
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By the way Bodes - what is the letter suffix of your duv-41? Wondering as to where your specimen fits in terms of markings and features in the suffix ranges discussed. Are you certain it is factory duv production? Could it possibly be a dual manufacurer or period rework?
Scott[/QUOTE]
Scott, As stated above mine is an Oberndorf (byf-41) manufactured K98k with a Gustloff (bcd) manufactured stock.....And I too am interested in learning something here....BodesComment
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Is any clue likely to be found in the barrel channel?
Or is disassembly of such a specimen considered taboo?
Best,
MattComment
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Bodes,
Sorry I misunderstood your original statement ("soon after I picked one up in trade") and believed you were speaking of a duv-41 with subcontract oberndorf parts.
ScottLast edited by sszza2; 06-28-2005, 10:23 AM.Comment
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Matt,
It should be clear from the outside if the subject rifle is a period rework or dual manufacturer.
A good deal would be learned by completely disassembling the subject duv-41 and carefully examining the internal and external condition and markings of the stock and all stock components. Particular attention should be paid to the stock well, and any numbering/marks/proofs within the stock well and under the buttplate.
ScottComment
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Scott,Originally posted by sszza2
I confess that not only am I not in the same league as you guys - I'm not even IN a league. But I have been interpreting (perhaps incorrectly) that the absense of the character in the s/n stamping on the stock is causing a question for some of the more learned members. Please advise on whether this specimen is a period rework or a dual manufacture. I apologize if I remain foggy while most are clear.
Much obliged,
MattComment
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More picts...
Here are some more picts. of the duv41 with byf stockComment
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