"Christmas" SA full röhm dagger

[Coltpython]

Ok, i'm back with some fresh pictures.
I have sent those to Mr. Wittmann, and his opinion was, that it is an original E.P.&S. Prototype SA dagger.

[Coltpython]

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[Serge M.]

Me too.
Grip looks so far very good and blade seems in bad condition.Common is the other way around!

I have my suspicions about this Christmas SA dagger.

[Coltpython]

Scabbard is also in bad condition, it must have been rusted and cleaned.

[Coltpython]

I have obtained this dagger from vet's family, who sent it to USA in 1945, with a letter, where he writes to his parents about his health, that he sold some mauser pistol and writes about that dagger, and that he heard that it is a "Gestapo dress knife sent to parents whose son's were killed in action" and describes it length and motto.
Please tell me what are your opinions about this piece, does anybody has a dagger like this?

[Coltpython]

Ok, i've very carefully took it apart.
The crossguards are both marked "A", and are very heavy. Handle is also marked "A" on lower part, and with four dots on upper part, the tang has a lots of rust on it.
Every part is fitted perfectly.

[krikke1980]

I have my suspicions about this Christmas SA dagger.

Why?

All is there. Imo a salty original Christmas dagger...

[Serge M.]

Why?

All is there. Imo a salty original Christmas dagger...

To rust a Solingen blade to that degree, the rest of the dagger would be in worse condition.

Most importantly , the internal parts markings are not marked like that compared to another epack Christmas SA that I had personally inspected.
Before you ask 'how was it marked', I won't say, due to the fakers who will improve on their 'product.'

I will state that my investigation is ongoing on this. I also give zero credence on Vet bring-back stories, unless I or a friend had acquired it in that fashion, even if stated in a letter, as many of those have been found 'accompanied' with a later acquired item by the vet OR by someone else.

-Serge

[Coltpython]

Mr Wittmann has a similar dagger on his site, it is in almost the same condition, blade is damaged and the handle is in good condition..
About that blade- it might be possible that some kind of humidity went into the scabbard and destroyed the blade and inner scabbard, i looked inside with a flashlight and it is all red of rust.

[BobI]

Sadly I have almost no experince with this type of dagger but I hope to change that in the next couple of years!
Anyway, I agree and the first thing that went through my mind was the blade was exposed to acid. Anything is possible but it has a different degree of corrosion compared to blades I know for fact were stored in humid or wet locations or scabbards. There was a Marine SA I tried to buy decades ago that looked like a Damascus blade from water damage, it was really cool! Ray Joehanson and Joe Hess used to get wonderful items on hotel buys long, long ago!! All of the things we have missed or let go
Bob

[Serge M.]

Anyway, I agree and the first thing that went through my mind was the blade was exposed to acid. Anything is possible but it has a different degree of corrosion compared to blades I know for fact were stored in humid or wet locations or scabbards.

Bob

I agree with Bob's experience on the blade.
I have also seen many a rusty blade, they don't look like this. It looks like it was exposed to acid.

The blade would have to have been separate by itself to extreme corrosion like acid, separate from the dagger, as the dagger itself, including the scabbard, all made with softer materials, doesn't come close to the distressed condition of the blade.

-Serge

[krikke1980]

Okay guys... so what are you all trying to say?
That this is a partial dagger, assembled with original parts?
Maybe fake blade and artificial altered?
C'mon...!

[Coltpython]

And what do you think about cleaning that blade? Those black marks are some kind of grease that went deep into the blade, should i clean it so that the corrosion won't go any further?

[Mac 66]

This may well be a perfectly genuine Christmas dagger so the guys who have there doubts please be 100% sure or you will be condemning a salty origional dagger, some solid evidence would be the correct way to go about it , No ?

[BobI]

While I admit I have never owned one of these I have studied them to a degree and have a good idea what makes a good one. Secondly, after seeing and owning large quantities of blades and many types of antiques you do develop an eye for artificial and natural stress. This dagger appears to have artificial stress and is lacking some features you would expect on an original. Could I be wrong, sure! However, I would estimate my chance of being wrong around 2%.
Unfortunately and I am not saying the person who posted this dagger is trying to be deceptive but, the fakers do watch these sites and improve their products. For that reason it is better to not mention some points for them to fix in the next generation.