Newbie requesting help to identify legit SA dagger

[98 Thundercat]

Greetings, I am new to collecting German military items. I have already started collected allied items but I came across an SA dagger that I can't stop thinking about. Actually I came across several items that I am wondering about. From everything I can tell it looks like a later Marine SA but I am nervous since there does not seem to be much info regarding this knife at least that I have been able to find. The Scabbard is black and so is the knife. To make matters worse the same guy is selling a helmet that appears to be mocked up as a double decal SS helmet. The helmet does not even appear to be German since it does not have any rivets whatsoever. It only has a vent hole. He is also selling a German Army dress dagger but again I am not sure about its authenticity. The 2 Daggers look real but since the Helmet is clearly fake? I am Leery. Opinions would be appreciated.
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[Billy G]

The Aesculap dagger looks correct & period, it is an earlier vintage example. The black scabbard would typically indicate it is an NSKK dagger, not SA. But the grip looks crudely painted black.

Some collectors believe the SA daggers with painted black scabbards AND painted black grips are early Marine SA daggers. Some others believe that these daggers are really just very early NSKK daggers. Either way, it looks like a decent dagger, assuming the asking price is commensurate with its condition.

[woodie]

Beware, any seller offering fake militaria should be avoided..Helmet is definately post war West German M1953 helmet, the stamping 4 is not original too. So would you trust to buy the other items?

[Br. James]

Hi 98 Thundercat; welcome among us -- it's good to have you here!

Cheers,

Br. James

[Serge M.]

Welcome to WAF.

In this hobby there are a few rules one must know.

1. You have to have all original items in your collection. One fake (for any reason) and the community will think 'well what else fake is in there?

2. Condition rules in almost all cases, except, rarity. 'Rare' is often abused term in this hobby.

3. Buy the best books on your area of interest- first. Buying artifacts and then asking whomever should be on the forum their opinion, is a wrong way to go.

On the army dagger you show, it is missing one hanger ring, the dagger being in 'rough' condition and is a common model with no 'extras' on it, takes it into a 'Wall Hanger' status.

The Asculap NSKK dagger looks promising and maybe worth a pick-up. If the price is right.

Also, regarding price; many here (myself included) will not give valuations anymore due to previous experiences. It's up to you to see what they are 'worth', It's easy to do, and part of getting knowledge on the piece and the market in general.

-wagner-

[98 Thundercat]

Beware, any seller offering fake militaria should be avoided..Helmet is definately post war West German M1953 helmet, the stamping 4 is not original too. So would you trust to buy the other items?

I agree with you. I am leery since there is clearly a fake helmet mixed in with the collection. That being said I have seen fakes blended with authentic pieces so that is why I came here for guidance. Thank you for specifically identifying the helmet. I knew it was not WWII due to the lack of rivets but I could not put my finger on its exact vintage or origin.

Welcome to WAF.

In this hobby there are a few rules one must know.

1. You have to have all original items in your collection. One fake (for any reason) and the community will think 'well what else fake is in there?

2. Condition rules in almost all cases, except, rarity. 'Rare' is often abused term in this hobby.

3. Buy the best books on your area of interest- first. Buying artifacts and then asking whomever should be on the forum their opinion, is a wrong way to go.

On the army dagger you show, it is missing one hanger ring, the dagger being in 'rough' condition and is a common model with no 'extras' on it, takes it into a 'Wall Hanger' status.

The Asculap NSKK dagger looks promising and maybe worth a pick-up. If the price is right.

Also, regarding price; many here (myself included) will not give valuations anymore due to previous experiences. It's up to you to see what they are 'worth', It's easy to do, and part of getting knowledge on the piece and the market in general.
-wagner-

Thank you for the warm welcome! I felt like the dagger were real but I got spooked with the fake helmet. The NSKK or SA Marine dagger is $425.00 and the Army dress dagger is $325.00. I was tempted by the Black Dagger and almost pulled out my card and bought it but the fake helmet scared me off. I do appreciate all of the advice.

[Stu W]

If you are new to SA daggers you might find the linked article of benefit ...

https://www.lakesidetrader.com/Educa...r-Deutschland/

The author, Paul Hogle, is a well respected member here and easy to deal with.

Regards,
Stu

[98 Thundercat]

If you are new to SA daggers you might find the linked article of benefit ...

https://www.lakesidetrader.com/Educa...r-Deutschland/

The author, Paul Hogle, is a well respected member here and easy to deal with.

Regards,
Stu

Thanks Stu. Actually I had already found the lakesidetrader website and read the same article and I watched his video. very informative however I still could not find a match to the dagger in my pics. I read some info referring to the the black handle as a being possibly a marine dagger but I have failed in finding any references to the maker on the blade.

[Billy G]

Are you a member of GermanDaggers.com? I know there are several threads on black grip SAs daggers & there should be plenty of threads on SA daggers by Aesculap.

There may also be threads on the above subjects here, although I can't be sure.

[98 Thundercat]

Are you a member of GermanDaggers.com? I know there are several threads on black grip SAs daggers & there should be plenty of threads on SA daggers by Aesculap.

There may also be threads on the above subjects here, although I can't be sure.

I just joined. Thanks for the suggestion.

[lakesidetrader]

You can also use the Lakesidetrader Archive.
https://www.lakesidetrader.com/Archives/
Type in Aesculap and you can find previously sold examples.
A good resource for the collecting community.

We have literally a thousand+ of daggers in there and 200+ early SA's alone