Earliest Army dagger by Eickhorn

[Serge M.]

Serge:
Using calipers would be the best way but a simpler way is to just try to put it in a later Eickhorn scabbard. I tried it with the two WKC's shown in Tom's book, wouldn't fit. Then I noticed that the WKC logo fit entirely on the flat of the early dagger while extending towards the edge on the later one. I sold the early one several years ago. I think Bob Rodgers has it now.

Brian, OK, I had the time today, and my curiosity was at Max, so I got to it, and did the blade width comparison. On top is the 1st issue Eickhorn, the thread subject. The second is a Eickhorn with The later sword logo, with a one screw scabbard on the reverse.




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[Serge M.]

The later, or mid-period, dagger blade measures at: 18.76 mm


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The early blade measures at: 19.52 mm





You are now clearly a 'Army Dagger Guru' ! I did not know that.
This is prime example of what collector knowledge means in this hobby. It's All and Everything.

[Notaguru]

Now if we can get other collectors to check the blade width on very early Klaas, Weyersburg, Alcoso and Anton Wingon daggers. I'm not sure why they switch was made but there has to be a reason.

[Billy G]

Serge,

Great info! I love seeing early stuff like this, just a really super pair of daggers.

[Serge M.]

I ran into a Wingen slant grip, put the calipers to it, and Wow ! It measures 19.67 mm.
Almost one millimeter wider than a mid-period Eickhorn blade. Just awesome.



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[stingray69]

Good job guys,we learn something new every day.
Beautiful pair Serge,congrats

[Serge M.]

Tom, Ron W., Scott, Danny, Brian, Wim, Billy & Kevin: Thanks for the kind words.

I don't know Army daggers like you guys. A lot of experience here.

[Bulldog]

Now if we can get other collectors to check the blade width on very early Klaas, Weyersburg, Alcoso and Anton Wingon daggers. I'm not sure why they switch was made but there has to be a reason.

Could it be these companies made the blades narrower so they would fit into later generic scabbards. Just a thought.

Best Russ.

[Notaguru]

Years ago, one of the Johnson reference books showed a period drawing of the dimensions of the Party Form daggers. It may have been done when the RZM standardized everything, I'm not sure. I have never seen anything like it for any other dagger. I wonder if all the later period dagger blades have the same dimensions.

[TPK]

Very nice dagger my fav of the earliest one, also like the 14 leaves. always nice detail and design. Thank you for showing. TPK

[Frogprince]

Years ago, one of the Johnson reference books showed a period drawing of the dimensions of the Party Form daggers. It may have been done when the RZM standardized everything, I'm not sure. I have never seen anything like it for any other dagger. I wonder if all the later period dagger blades have the same dimensions.

Some very nice daggers I've seen the drawing I think you are referencing, but not sure it's going to help when trying to track all of the manufacturer's variables to produce an explanation that is verifiable-consistent. Even with military inspected and milspec service bayonets, physical variations are seen which is why the early ones had all matching numbers so that everything would fit together at the end of the manufacturing process. As for the RZM it did have general specifications, but they were changed at different times to suit the current capabilities of manufacturers. With a commissioned metallurgical study by a very dedicated collector of political blades years ago, it did not show a consistency in standards by specific makers which was his goal. But instead it showed that the steel in the blades was actually "all over the landscape" when the data was compiled and examined, and I very strongly suspect that outcome would be the same for other daggers like the German Army types. With my point here being that the German Army did control how its milspec swords were made, but left the private purchase types up to the makers. Without ever creating a milspec version of the Army dagger unlike the Luftwaffe and Kreigsmarine - so was an actual set of specifications ever created, or was it left up to the makers to do what suited them best as some of them seemed to do? FP

[JohnZ]

Seeing this thread, I decided to measure my Eicks. Here are my findings:

Double Oval Serrated Tail
- slant ivory, double screw scabbard, 19.1mm
- slant, single screw scabbard, 19.3mm
- standard grip, double screw, 19.5mm

Large Seated Squirrel
- single screw, 18.5mm
- no screw (all aluminium), 18.9mm
- single screw, artificial Damascus, 18.4mm

Small Stamped Seated Squirrel
- single screw, 18.6mm

John