Gau marked M36 daggers

[Mac 66]

where can i get one of those... or is it shopped

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=850670

[jerry c.]

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=850670

thanks!

[Frogprince]

Very much appreciative of Patrice and Barry’s adding an entertaining diversion from the topic , sometimes you need a little break to step back and take a breath. Although there is an element of truth if you reverse the roles a little, with Mauser-Werke sales of armaments to China a little less than 1/3 of its sales in the 1937/38 time frame (not that it has anything to do with SS daggers).

And there is one other set of remarks from the article that might deserve some attention that try to rationalize the SA Gruppe markings: …………. “the one thing that would be problematic for the edged weapon firms would be the already Gruppe stamped lower cross guards. As these were marked at distribution centers after the daggers left the factory, it wouldn’t make sense to have a Gruppe stamp on them, not knowing where these daggers were going to be distributed. The cross guards, and in particular the lower cross guards, was most likely not reused on new sold SA daggers.”

So if I’m understanding what the article writer is saying correctly - they didn’t want to reuse the old recycled SA Gruppe marked crossguards on new manufacture SA daggers because it would confuse the recipients about where to send them. And they did not want the daggers to be returned and possibly have the contract cancelled, so they used new manufacture cross guards? But it was OK to dump them on the SS as an organization, and then sold to SS members of both high and lower ranks - and nobody was going to complain or suggest a contract cancellation (if not worse)?? FP


[DR DOLCH]

Absolutely non sense, unless proven otherwise, I do not believe that any SS Chained daggers were sold by some private vendor in a kit form, from pre-used components and at a discounted price.

Good Lord, these are the types of theories dangerous for our hobby.

Thank goodness the SS were elite Aryans or they would've imported their daggers from China and at a much cheaper price.

Yes thank goodness for that or they may damage their reputation for quality manufacturing which they are known for world wide.FP perhaps you could explain to us why the SS and others branches reused helmets because the Germans would never reuse products even if they did not have the material to produce them.

[Frogprince]

Yes thank goodness for that or they may damage their reputation for quality manufacturing which they are known for world wide. FP perhaps you could explain to us why the SS and others branches reused helmets because the Germans would never reuse products even if they did not have the material to produce them.

Say what?? I really do have some other things to do today, but will try to answer the question in as few words as possible. What do recycled WW I German Army helmets have to do with political daggers that did not even exist prior to the beginnings and establishment of the Third Reich?

So let’s look at the bigger picture aside from the economic recovery from WWI, the Great Depression etc. The SS was split off from the SA and under Himmler with limited money at his disposal, he wanted his own army separate from the Wehrmacht. The Army did not like the idea and gave him nothing, so he and/or his subordinates had to scourge around acquiring leftover WW I surplus items like helmets, rifles, bayonets etc. Whereas the German Army already had whatever the Weimar era Army had in its possession at the time. That is until a new style helmet was adopted and the old ones were phased out.

So please clarify what your point is, because the German Army more or less continuously rebuilt and reissued preexisting combat arms, with the SS having its own comparable program for example with rifles - depending on the time frame. FP

[DR DOLCH]

FP your last paragraph clarified my point nicely, Thanks for agreeing with me that it was not uncommon for German manufactures to use used parts.You always precede a statement with how busy you are and then go into a lengthy statement.Try brevity so you won't cut into your busy day.

[Frogprince]

FP your last paragraph clarified my point nicely, Thanks for agreeing with me that it was not uncommon for German manufactures to use used parts.You always precede a statement with how busy you are and then go into a lengthy statement.Try brevity so you won't cut into your busy day.

Sorry, you got it wrong. Neither the German Army or the early SS were manufacturers of new weapons. The used weapons were overhauled in shops that either they controlled, or private businesses that used recycled parts, or in some cases new parts made by third parties. That is not the same thing as a manufacturer. So let me see if this makes sense to you: A used automobile made by XYZ goes to a shop named ABC for some new tires. Is ABC a manufacturer? I hope that it's brief enough - but if not I can try something else. FP

[nickn]

Don't bother

[The Red Baron]

Don't bother

Short, sweet and to the point.

One thing that comes to mind are the SS Rohms we see that were sent back to the Eickhorn manufacturer to have the rohm inscription removed and where the rzm mark was added.......that sounds like a manufacturer overhauling an SS dagger (dagger made by XYZ getting new work at XYZ)....but as well all know there will be a quick retort from the prince that will go down a new road.

[Frogprince]

Short, sweet and to the point.

One thing that comes to mind are the SS Rohms we see that were sent back to the Eickhorn manufacturer to have the rohm inscription removed and where the rzm mark was added.......that sounds like a manufacturer overhauling an SS dagger (dagger made by XYZ getting new work at XYZ)....but as well all know there will be a quick retort from the prince that will go down a new road.

I will leave “the road to Röhm” to Ron, whom I’m very certain has more experience and institutional knowledge.

But I don't think that we can ignore the following statements from the writer of the article - which are true as it regards fit and finish, and don't even address some of the things that are seen:

"The grip to cross guard fit on these Type C chains with SA Gruppe stamped fittings is absolutely all over the place. It’s crazy ! Some fit fine, some have low shoulders, other have more spacing than you would expect, it’s truly all over the board. Duh, no kidding. They were early SA dagger cross guards, now paired to SS grips, which were never hand precision fit. So how could this come to be?……………… Of course the contour and shape of these pre-used hardware fittings were only by chance going to fit the precut and shaped SS grips that they had in stock ………………"

Which suggests to me that there was no single point of contact like an Eickhorn - instead looking more like a lot of busy little hands at work. Or a finite time period either because of the different parts configurations of some of the SA parts SS daggers. FP

[The Red Baron]

I will leave “the road to Röhm” to Ron, whom I’m very certain has more experience and institutional knowledge.

But I don't think that we can ignore the following statements from the writer of the article - which are true as it regards fit and finish, and don't even address some of the things that are seen:

"The grip to cross guard fit on these Type C chains with SA Gruppe stamped fittings is absolutely all over the place. It’s crazy ! Some fit fine, some have low shoulders, other have more spacing than you would expect, it’s truly all over the board. Duh, no kidding. They were early SA dagger cross guards, now paired to SS grips, which were never hand precision fit. So how could this come to be?……………… Of course the contour and shape of these pre-used hardware fittings were only by chance going to fit the precut and shaped SS grips that they had in stock ………………"

Which suggests to me that there was no single point of contact like an Eickhorn - instead looking more like a lot of busy little hands at work. Or a finite time period either because of the different parts configurations of some of the SA parts SS daggers. FP

Great analysis

[BobI]

You guys need to do a proper detailed research project on these Gruppe marked M36 daggers, compare grips, check if the castor marks are the same on the crossguards, eagle, SS runes, top nut ect to see if they all match up, just an idea

Bingo! All of the ones that are "right" have the same casting marks on the cross guards. I will only reveal the marks to certain people I know are "OK", I never wanted to mention this before but have seen enough to know.
Bob