MAX Show Dagger Seminars

[tanker]

I agree. Wouldn't it make sense to "authenticate" these if you were writing a book and wanted justify selling the daggers/books. I hate to cast a shadow also, but it was certainly done with the Totenkopfring recently.
Ron

I have always stayed away for the "Pack" daggers just because of that "argument" ventured by Wittmann. Many of these daggers have been sold by dealers over the years with the argument always SUGGESTING there were multiple trademarks over just a few short years. I would like to see some period documentation to support that viewpoint. This was not a "cottage industry" company, and to change the logo six or seven time in two/three years is illogical IMO. Are there any catalogs that could support these changes. Did the other model daggers produced by E-Pack change logos as well?

[11C]

I agree. Wouldn't it make sense to "authenticate" these if you were writing a book and wanted justify selling the daggers/books. I hate to cast a shadow also, but it was certainly done with the Totenkopfring recently.
Ron

I doubt Wittmann would try to authenticate Pack daggers just to sell material, but it certainly would help with regard to the ones he has already sold. Gottlieb, on the other hand, is just the Atwood/PT Barnum of this generation; a clown in need of a stage. Sad what he did to the Totenkopfring........it may never recover its hierarchy, or its true value, in the world of SS collectables.

[The Red Baron]

I doubt Wittmann would try to authenticate Pack daggers just to sell material, but it certainly would help with regard to the ones he has already sold. Gottlieb, on the other hand, is just the Atwood/PT Barnum of this generation; a clown in need of a stage. Sad what he did to the Totenkopfring........it may never recover its hierarchy, or its true value, in the world of SS collectables.

Very true and very sad. On the one hand though.....you can now get a premium TK for a much more reasonable price

[BobI]

On the Rohm dagger, look at it this way. Take a look at the numerous ground Rohms that are out there. Look at the TM when present, they will be lacking detail just as much as the full inscriptions. Do you really think someone made templates for Rohm daggers, removed the etch and dispersed them for deceptive reasons?
Reproduction? Recognition! Was a great book that helped myself and others substantially when it came out. Now it is still very useful but antiquated. The reason the EP&S Rohm daggers are often considered fake is because of one page in that book. Awesome book but there are other mistakes too.
Bob

[The Red Baron]

On the Rohm dagger, look at it this way. Take a look at the numerous ground Rohms that are out there. Look at the TM when present, they will be lacking detail just as much as the full inscriptions. Do you really think someone made templates for Rohm daggers, removed the etch and dispersed them for deceptive reasons?
Reproduction? Recognition! Was a great book that helped myself and others substantially when it came out. Now it is still very useful but antiquated. The reason the EP&S Rohm daggers are often considered fake is because of one page in that book. Awesome book but there are other mistakes too.
Bob

[11C]

Can anyone post up a picture of the a Pack Rohn reproduced by Rex Reddick? A lot of this confusion about multiple Pack trademarks can be resolved with that blade.

[Bulldog]

WHO, or WHAT are we going to believe now. What if something like this pops up with another dagger, what a mess this hobby is in. Ive only been doing this for 2 years and cant believe all the confusion surrounding it. I would have thought that after all these decades everything would now be known. 11C, never doubt anything that's how we get taken for suckers.

[damasco]

WHO, or WHAT are we going to believe now. What if something like this pops up with another dagger, what a mess this hobby is in. Ive only been doing this for 2 years and cant believe all the confusion surrounding it. I would have thought that after all these decades everything would now be known. 11C, never doubt anything that's how we get taken for suckers.

There are many truths still to be reveled in the (hobby) of German edged weapon collecting that is something I can say without a doubt. Going to shows is VERY IMPORTANT .. buying the best reference you can find (most are good) .. I personally think the forums can be very confusing for a new collector.. There are occasionally some great threads.

[11C]

WHO, or WHAT are we going to believe now. What if something like this pops up with another dagger, what a mess this hobby is in. Ive only been doing this for 2 years and cant believe all the confusion surrounding it. I would have thought that after all these decades everything would now be known. 11C, never doubt anything that's how we get taken for suckers.

We know that Reddick reproduced a beautiful drop-forged Pack blade in the 70's. He only used ONE of the trademarks that Pack had authorized to other engravers. Understand the Reddick blade, and you can eliminate the other marks as being fakes. The real experts and honest dealers have been aware of this for this for many years. I assume Wittmann will discuss this in the new book, but until then (without a Reddick to compare) stay away from this dagger unless you know the seller and his reputation for honesty or his willingness to refund your money without question.

[BobI]

I agree with damasco, going to shows and finding honest collectors and dealers is very important. It is a good idea to study what you collect, especially in this hobby. Once you study daggers fro example, the materials used, construction techniques and colors are very important. For someone to truly duplicate anything 100% is near impossible. Look at badges, some of the fakes are outstanding! However, the reference and knowledge has grown tremendously over the years. Thank God for that!!!!
Bob

[Serge M.]

I agree with damasco, going to shows and finding honest collectors and dealers is very important. It is a good idea to study what you collect, especially in this hobby. Once you study daggers fro example, the materials used, construction techniques and colors are very important. For someone to truly duplicate anything 100% is near impossible. Look at badges, some of the fakes are outstanding! However, the reference and knowledge has grown tremendously over the years. Thank God for that!!!!
Bob

Hi Bob, I also agree with Damasco. Buying books and reading them is very important. The shows gives you practical knowledge with actual Hands On examinations. If your into this hobby, you need to put in the time and money. Your not going to get a complete picture from forum threads. Attend every presentation you can by a hobby expert of your interest. I'm amazed how much there is still to learn, and how fun it is to learn new details. If one had attended the Wittmann seminar you could have examined a e-pack SA Christmas dagger, and a Raised Panel presentation dagger in hand.

[Ron Weinand]

I have been preaching attending the seminars for years and am sure the quality of the program cannot be found anywhere else, so why do so many of the "dealers" and collectors not avail themselves to this FREE INFORMATION AND QUALITY PRESENTATIONS. And you get to ask questions too. Not one question to Tom Wittmann concerning some of the posts in other sections of WA.com where there was an on line controversy. I guess when the lights are on, some of those throwing stones cannot stand the glare and does seek an explanation???

[Bulldog]

It would be great to go to shows like the MAX but for a lot of collectors, me included, who don't have much disposable income and save every spare bit of cash for their next dagger its not always affordable to book flights, accommodation etc to America (I live in England) to see shows like the MAX.
I like books, which aren't cheap, and as said there tends to be a lot of mistakes in them and difference of opinions. Now we have new opinions on the Rohm dagger from Wittmann at the seminar which will probably be in his new book which wont be cheap either. Im disappointed to hear that no one questioned this new info or the numbers issue that was the topic of another thread on this forum.
I think collectors should use a combination of sources of information to help them decide on the authenticity of the next dagger they want to add to their collection, like shows (if you can afford them), books, comparisons from sites and archives, knowledge from people they know and can trust and also forums like this. There are a lot of knowledgeable people on this forum and I do find them very helpful so thanks guys and keep up the good work.