Newbie in VA requests help identify my WaffenSS dagger

[w4uvv]

Hi all. I am new to this particular forum. I hope to benefit from other collectors' knowledge and experience in this area of collecting. I recently acquired a Waffen SS dagger with scabbard. I believe I have been somewhat successful in identifying most of the dagger's attributes except for two possibly three issues. I also seek validation as to my findings so far. If incorrect please tell what is valid.

I found two Waffen SS dagger pictures listed on the internet that are extremely close to mine in design marks....not 100% but very close. One of those is in this forum's thread "Show Some Pictures of Your Daggers". The picture post by "Colt45s" is very very close to mine. The main difference is centered on the obverse/rear bottom hilt guard on my dagger is stamped "983/06". I have been unable to identify what it represents. Is it another level of maker identifier or a production run???

The second matching dagger which was offered for sale text lists RZM "121/34" as a manufacturer identifier as follows "RZM 121/34 code:111 Berlin J. A. Henkels/Ed Wusthof Soligen".

My internet research included a website that provided guidance in helping identify each of the 3 period types of SS daggers (i.e., early pre-1936, transition 1936-1937 and later standardized ). Per the website not all earlier period daggers had stamped maker marks (hallmarks). My best guess was my dagger is a transition period 1936-1937 model based in part because not all earlier period daggers had stamped maker marks (hallmarks) but did have other matching attributes.

Any assistance in identifying more specifically my dagger would be appreciated. Hopefully I have learned some basics. Specifically I would like to know what the "983/06" represents and validation that the RZM "121/34" is "J. A. Henkels/ Ed Wusthof Soligen". If not who is the correct manufacturer?
Are my other best guesses correct or not?


My class of membership does not allow me to post my 6 dagger pictures. Please look at Colt45s' dagger picture in "Show Some Pictures of Your Daggers". My dagger has the same exact markings except my dagger additionally has the "983/03" stamped in the center of the bottom hilt guard.

Thanks.

John

[zozole]

Hi and welcome!

Send some pics to my email and I will post them for you,,
PM me..

Cheers

Emil

[zozole]

email sent

[zozole]

Posting pics for John,,

Notice the strange number!!!!

[zozole]

more..

[zozole]

......

[zozole]

.....Check out this number! What do you guys have to say about it??

John,

you have a interesting dagger!



upside down 86 that looks like 98 and SS number 3106! could this be correct? if so then...

86th sturm number 3106 belongs to a Hermann Seibert

This was all I found in the key,
Born 8/7-1900
NSDAP number 176 209
Obersturmfuhrer

Does Ross K hang around here?

Nice Catch

EMiL

[charlie7]

Don't know if you would have a 4-diget ID number on an RZM SS dagger. Seems that early a mumber would be on a maker marked piece. Just a thought. Charlie

[nickn]

you cannot get much earlier then 1934
early member who had time off or was delayed in purchasing his dagger

[zozole]

Charlie,
this dagger is 100% good,,

Cheers

Emil

Don't know if you would have a 4-diget ID number on an RZM SS dagger. Seems that early a mumber would be on a maker marked piece. Just a thought. Charlie

[777]

The dagger itself is original, but to me it's the 6 digit number 983106 or 983/06, executed very poor BTW.
121 is an unidetntified maker of the SS daggers, i.e. it ahsn't been identified yet even if some sale description says different.

[zozole]

I personally dont belive that this is a 6 digit number,,

It would be to high for SS number ,,, I cant remember seeing a higher number on a ss dagger then 222 000 something..

[Frogprince]

................. 6 digit number 983106 executed very poor ..........

Speaking in general, while an SS man could have been in the Waffen SS, he also might have never have left the ranks of the Allgemeine-SS. With the number IMO a "983106" because there is no mistaking the orientation of the "3". And the "9" and "6" at first looking a ("6" or "9") stamp that had been inverted. But then after a little closer look - it looks like it might be some kind of engraving (?). Because the enclosed center part of the "9" has more of a round shape, while the "6" is more egg shaped. FP

[777]

Speaking in general, while an SS man could have been in the Waffen SS, he also might have never have left the ranks of the Allgemeine-SS. With the number IMO a "983106" because there is no mistaking the orientation of the "3". And the "9" and "6" at first looking a ("6" or "9") stamp that had been inverted. But then after a little closer look - it looks like it might be some kind of engraving (?). Because the enclosed center part of the "9" has more of a round shape, while the "6" is more egg shaped. FP

Good point, look also at the lower part of the "8" (inverted as well btw.). It looks engraved indeed.
Anyway, I start to have bad feelings about this number in general.

[w4uvv]

SS Districts reference

Good point, look also at the lower part of the "8" (inverted as well btw.). It looks engraved indeed.
Anyway, I start to have bad feelings about this number in general.

FYI I found some info on a website reference listing a partial extract from "TM-E-451 Handbook of German Military Forces". See Section 1 SS and Police, paragraph 5.c Regional Organization, (4) List of SS Districts at the below link.

Assuming the character " | " is a Roman numeral "1" and not an Arabic "1", this would be consistent with perhaps a RZM stamping and sending this and thousands of other daggers to various northern sectors for issuance. Assuming "06" refers to SS District "VI" my dagger possibly was sent and issued in district "VI" which was "West" with headquarters in "Dusseldorf".

http://www.lonesentry.com/manuals/tm...3sec1sub5.html

John