Rare! SS dagger with exclamation point

[Br. James]

Yes, it's a beauty. I don't recall ever reading an explanation of the presence of the exclamation point on one or two SS makers' products; most mottoes do not include that character. It is akin to the presence of the motto's exclamation point on SS officer's (round) belt buckles, and it is absent on the rectangular EM versions. Anyone have any info here? Thanks,

Br. James

[JR.]

For me, Himmler was anal and a total control freak with his ever changing what troops could wear for insignia, cuff tiitles, uniform colors, ties, the length of jock straps and everything else. When Dietrich was presented the beautiful sword that his men commissioned to be made for him, Himmler stopped him dead in his track from ever wearing the piece in public other than a couple of times right after he received the gift. The sword did not conform to what Himmler prescribed that his officers could wear, and it didn't matter who you were.

We have roughly a dozen companies during 1934-36 that trademarked their SS daggers and used the standard SS motto on their blades. Why would Himmler allow but 2 companies to deviate from how all the others had to etch their blade mottos??? For me the exclamation motto daggers of K&M and Jacobs represented some type of special recognition to those that were possibly awarded these unique daggers to be worn.

[Rheingold]

For me, Himmler was anal and a total control freak with his ever changing what troops could wear for insignia, cuff tiitles, uniform colors, ties, the length of jock straps and everything else. When Dietrich was presented the beautiful sword that his men commissioned to be made for him, Himmler stopped him dead in his track from ever wearing the piece in public other than a couple of times right after he received the gift. The sword did not conform to what Himmler prescribed that his officers could wear, and it didn't matter who you were.

We have roughly a dozen companies during 1934-36 that trademarked their SS daggers and used the standard SS motto on their blades. Why would Himmler allow but 2 companies to deviate from how all the others had to etch their blade mottos??? For me the exclamation motto daggers of K&M and Jacobs represented some type of special recognition to those that were possibly awarded these unique daggers to be worn.

[Seiler]

[Br. James]

Thanks, JR. Do you think there might be some reason to believe that there was a connection between the SS daggers with the exclamation points and the fact that only SS officers' belt buckles bore that mark, as well? Could it be established that the daggers produced by the two manufacturers mentioned were only sold to SS officers, or that they were used as special presentation pieces from high-ranking officials? Quite an interesting question!

Br. James

[777]

Thanks, JR. Do you think there might be some reason to believe that there was a connection between the SS daggers with the exclamation points and the fact that only SS officers' belt buckles bore that mark, as well? Could it be established that the daggers produced by the two manufacturers mentioned were only sold to SS officers, or that they were used as special presentation pieces from high-ranking officials? Quite an interesting question!

Br. James

There is no single reason to believe in that, I'm affraid.

[777]

... I mean the "officers only" theory.

[Barry Brown]

For me, Himmler was anal and a total control freak with his ever changing what troops could wear for insignia, cuff tiitles, uniform colors, ties, the length of jock straps and everything else. When Dietrich was presented the beautiful sword that his men commissioned to be made for him, Himmler stopped him dead in his track from ever wearing the piece in public other than a couple of times right after he received the gift. The sword did not conform to what Himmler prescribed that his officers could wear, and it didn't matter who you were.

We have roughly a dozen companies during 1934-36 that trademarked their SS daggers and used the standard SS motto on their blades. Why would Himmler allow but 2 companies to deviate from how all the others had to etch their blade mottos??? For me the exclamation motto daggers of K&M and Jacobs represented some type of special recognition to those that were possibly awarded these unique daggers to be worn.

What is interesting in connection with JR's thoughts is that the mottoe with exclamation point was carried over from Jco and Klittermann & Moog TM'd pieces through those marked RZM M7/29 and then to the later SS contract daggers, marked 324/37 and 324/38. There must be a reason that this unique rendering of the blade mottoe escaped RZM standardisation and was further sanctioned by SS contract numbers.

[777]

It is and it will probably remain one of those unsolved mysteries of SS daggers,
alongside with: 120/34 and 121/34 - what was the maker and WHY the number was used if everybody else used logos in that time, and WHY some early makers are always found void of Roman numerals if they (all the SS daggers in those days) are supposed to be stamped at the distribution place in Munich, Berlin or Dresden. We as collectors can have different views and theories but no proof or explanation backed by facts or documents has been found yet. Anyway the "!" is very intriguing and puts the KM and Jacobs into some kind of subcategory of SS daggers.

[Rheingold]

... I mean the "officers only" theory.

You right Adam.

I own an M 7/29 out of the weeds. The former owner served in the FHQ Adlerhorst. As a non officer.

[777]

Sure, it just confirms, what I was trying to point out - the false statement that "only SS officers' belt buckles bore that mark". I guess one look at EM buckle is enough to be convinced.
Adlershorst? Sounds very interesting

[Rheingold]

Indeed,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adlerhorst

[777]

Maybe there is a chance to find out what's behind those exclamation marks by checking and comparing all the facts we know about the owners of the numbered & ided daggers in our collections (BTW. I must contact Ross asap about my Jacobs No.270148). So, guys, if you're the happy owners of such, please share the information.

[Br. James]

To 777: Thank you for calling to my attention a very long-held misconception. That is exactly what a Forum like this is about!

Br. James

[Barry Brown]

Maybe there is a chance to find out what's behind those exclamation marks by checking and comparing all the facts we know about the owners of the numbered & ided daggers in our collections (BTW. I must contact Ross asap about my Jacobs No.270148). So, guys, if you're the happy owners of such, please share the information.

I have a 324/37 which is serial number stamped 281253. Not an officer, Ross has checked for me but no result from EM records as yet. Have had a personalised Jco marked blade belonging to an EM, name of "Block" and "9/42" scratched on the reverse grip. Neither dagger had the roman numeral stamps on the reverse lower guard.