Craig Gottlieb-SA Birdshead Dagger

[DTS]

In complete agreement with Frogprince. I would love to more about the early history of fakes and fakers - especially Atwood.

As far as post #418 goes, as a firm believer in free speech, if you don't like the thread, don't read it.

[cogwheel]

The man is not talking about First Amendment restrictions. Its just about plain old civility.

[Hoss]

Gents
Its one of the most amazing things I,ve ever read regarding collecting.
Took me three hrs! and half a case of beer!!

Hats off to WAF for pinning it.

Regards
Eric

[HOS Bandit]

Cogwell, thank you for being astute enough to understand the crux of my post. My response to this thread had nothing to do with abrogating 'anyone's' 1st Amendment right to "Free Speech." And I can't believe that it was construed as such by anyone. Any further response on that subject by me, would just brand me a hypocrite. I may be new here, but I have as much of a right to read and post responses on threads as anyone, as long as I abide by the WAF guidelines regarding personal conduct. I was told by others that WAF was a class act, and personally confirmed that in the short time I've been a member. And I'm surely not going to let one squabble, in one thread, about one obscure dagger, change my opinion. I have been on way to many forums where it was considered 'high sport' to ridicule and mock, or even viciously attack anyone who dared disagree with them on anything! In no way am I equating those sites with this one. Far from it, from what I've seen so far. The very fact that I feel comfortable enough to respond in this manner, in my eyes supports that. But invariably, the difference and the distance that is between those sites and this one, resides in the members.

[Serge M.]

-edit-..... I could stomach no more after hearing him called a 'shyster'. I have purchased a few items of no great consequence from 'Mr Gottlieb', and always found both him and his staff to be both professional in their correspondence, and fair in their prices for the items I obtained. My dealings with him in no way make me have an opinion on the validity of a $70,000 dagger. But I can, and will have an opinion on how he was treated in this thread. He was treated shabbily by various members, and those members, in my opinion got what they deserved.

The validity of the $70,000 silver Birdhead dagger has been raised by some the of most astute and veteran blade collectors on this forum. Craig has been asked by many members here to reply to key questions of authenticity but since his last post on page 14 of this thread where he announced:
>>One thing you can be sure of . . . when Mr. Stephens and his small cohort of skeptics demand information, that is the quickest way to send me packing.<<
-Mr. Gottlieb has chosen, uncharacteristically, not to further respond to the fair minded collectors and their legitimate questions on this dagger.

So when a dealer selling a $70,000 'rarity' gets asked some questions and in the process the 'Live Vet' turns into a 'dead Vet' who then morps into a 'picker' and the dealer 'bails' on further replies....well I hope you don't need to be in the hobby for 20 years to know what that usually means.

Too bad you don't know more about daggers since then you would realize who was truly 'treated shabbily'.
You would also realize then why this thread has been 'pinned' by management.

Regards,
-wagner-

[Ralph P]

Hello all - Please read post 370. No further warning will be given. Thanks for your assistance on this.

[schönbeck]

I'm really quite confused. For example, in the court of law, both the accused and victim is discussed. Why not on a forum?

Is this forum protecting the dealers?

I thought it was about protecting the buyers. Many many items (i guess 80%) on this forum is posted to have them authenticated.

[Ralph P]

schönbeck - This is the dagger forum for disucssion about daggers that are good and bad.

If you have a problem with a dealer take it up on the collector community forum. Further, if you have issue or perceive that this forum is protecting dealers and can state clearly with proof why you think this forum is protecting dealers, then bring it up in the community forum. This forum is not protecting any dealer or dealers and if you think it is then bring it up with the owner of this forum.

[busterz111]

Thats the problem....this is a privately owned "PUBLIC" forum and Not a court of law.Regardless what anyone thinks the owners of the site are out to protect their own interests...IE: Their own butts.There have been some fantastic info in this thread...its both Alarming and Satisfying to see some of the comments.I would love to see one of these pieces in person regardless I always found them Very nice looking.

[David Guist]

Owners? How many owner are there? Do you know? No more warnings as already stated.Discuse the the daggers.Best regards.

[busterz111]

I have been warned on many previous gottlieb related posts.I have learned to hold my tounge so I agree discuss the dagger itself and the rest will wash itself clean over time.

Owners?....Just a word I guess I would assume 1 owner and I have no Idea if anyone else is co owner.

[BrianK]

Perhaps someone would like to discuss a connection with the Goring FHH presentation dagger - I see some similarities there....

[Frogprince]

From my own personal perspective comparing the manufacture of the “silver” Birdshead dagger to the FHH, is like a dagger made in somebody's garage, versus one made in a reasonably well equipped factory. Both are fakes, but at least one of them (the FHH) at least looks like it was made by a professional. This also might be a good time to mention again that there is a companion thread to this one. And it is with that grouping where some parallels might be seen, including that cased dagger which in my view is a topic unto itself. FP

Companion thread: http://70.87.163.50/forums/showthrea...=534661&page=3

Cased dagger: http:/http://www.worlddaggers.com/engine/inspect.asp?Item=296&Filter=Gallery

[J. Wraith]

These are good daggers for the Hollywood elite to show their guests at after dinner party's at the Academy Awards. Sell them to the suckers in Hollywood and that has been the talk for years anyway so why not toss it up. Who buys this crap? Hollywood types with the means and the friends that can be dazzled, surely no serious collector would go near this item or others. Tom Hanks or a Clint Eastwood would suffice though as what do they know?. All a bunch of suckers really with too much money and what they think is a connection to the rarest of the rare. Naaa, its garbage really and the only people stupid enough to buy it are communists as that is where their tastes are, in the garbage. I think this addresses the daggers without any personalities really and of course just my opinion. Maybe the rich boys decided to do some homework and this piece is open to the masses.

[David Guist]

But there is a collectables market for fake dagger.If you go out and try to find some of these they are hard to come by.Best regards.